We should discuss this, so for me there are some legal conundrums.
Question 1 that somehow comes up the most here is how the heck are the authorities supposed to know which country you were in when gambling?
As far as I know, the law of the country you are in always applies. And why shouldn't you be allowed to use your German account for payouts in this case? The win was made legally abroad.
Of course, the online casino could give out your IP address in response to official requests from the police in Germany, but honestly, why should they? Do they even have to store it for longer than a week? (if at all?)
Why don't unlicensed Online Casinos simply allow Germans to use a VPN?
Questions upon questions.
Could it just be that they are witch-hunting people who simply don't defend themselves legally? (I am not affected)
Please don't answer like just use Crypto or Jeton Wallet etc. That's not the point here.
Some people still don't get it. The German authorities are trying everything they can to force players into German casinos, and they will use any means to generate tax revenue. To scare them into only losing their money at StarGames and the like. The state needs money for Ukraine and co
hustlehoff wrote on 04/26/2024 at 3:04 pm: We should discuss this, so for me there are some legal conundrums.
Question 1 that somehow comes up the most here is how the heck are the authorities supposed to know what country you were in when gambling?
As far as I know, the law of the country you are in always applies. And why shouldn't you be allowed to use your German account for payouts in this case? The win was made legally abroad.
Of course, the online casino could give out your IP address in response to official requests from the police in Germany, but honestly, why should they? Do they even have to store it for longer than a week? (if at all?)
Why don't unlicensed Online Casinos simply allow Germans to use a VPN?
Questions upon questions.
Could it just be that they are witch-hunting people who simply don't defend themselves legally? (I am not affected)
Please don't answer like just use Crypto or Jeton Wallet etc. That's not the point here.
Answer to question 1: You could have the internet Provider find out. I don't know how long they store logs, but if they suspect a criminal offense, they can access the logs and prove that you were on the German network.
Theoretically, even with a VPN you are not safe. It depends on which one you use. But I'll leave it without comment as to which VPN is secure.
I doubt that OCs give out IPs. It's more likely to be the internet providers.
Answer to question 1: You could have the internet Provider find out. I don't know how long they store logs, but if they suspect a criminal offense, they can get the logs and prove that you were on the German network.
Theoretically, even with a VPN you are not safe. It depends on which one you use. But I'll leave it without comment as to which VPN is secure.
I doubt that OCs give out IPs. It's more likely to be the internet providers.
And how is that supposed to work? How would they know on what day and at what time your win was in the unlicensed online casino? That's a mystery to me. That would only be possible if they get the data from the online casino directly, when you won there and at what time, and then ask your Internet provider whether you were online at home on that day and time and whether your traffic to the casino took place? WTF:D
hustlehoff wrote on April 26th, 2024 at 3:23 pm:
And how is that supposed to work? How do they want to know on what day and at what time your win was in the unlicensed online casino? That's a mystery to me. That would only be possible if they get the data directly from the online casino when you won there and at what time and then ask your Internet Provider whether you were at home on that day and your traffic to the casino took place? WTF:D
Banks report "strange" incoming money or forward it accordingly and they investigate. If they have a warrant, then they can force providers to hand over the logs and the logs are proof that you were playing in Germany.
Logs not only contain your IP, but also your MAC address and some other information.
An OC does not report anything, especially not to any German authorities. Why would they do that? They would be p**sing down their own throats. Unlike OCs, providers have to respond to the authorities because they are based in Germany.
You somehow don't understand that the police / public prosecutor's office need the data from the online casino on which day and at what time you were logged in and played there - what else are they supposed to find out about your internet Provider? By the way, there are also German non Log Socks5 proxies that you could use. Then they only see your connection to another German proxy and can't find out anything, for example.
Simply put, if you set up an Internet connection, you are registered. If you verify a SIM card in Germany with ID, you are registered. Total surveillance in the great Germany. Just take your smartphone and wave it at the camera, anyone can theoretically see you if they want to. A brave new world of surveillance, just like banks monitor everything
hustlehoff wrote on 26.04.2024 at 15:36: You somehow don't understand that the police / public prosecutor's office need the data from the online casino on which day and at what time you were logged in and played there, what else should they find out about your internet Provider? By the way, there are also German non Log Socks5 proxies that you could use. Then they only see your connection to another German proxy and can't find out anything, for example.
You would first have to know what is written in such an indictment or complaint. Are the casinos named there exactly? Is the exact place and time mentioned? Or only the amount that was paid out? Do banks always recognize the exact origin of payouts? So banks are definitely involved in disclosing data, not just providers
hustlehoff wrote on 26.04.2024 at 15:36: You somehow don't understand that the police / public prosecutor's office need the data from the online casino on which day and at what time you were logged in and played there, what else should they find out about your internet Provider? By the way, there are also German non Log Socks5 proxies that you could use. Then they only see your connection to another German proxy and can't find out anything, e.g.
if you go to www.illegalescasino.com in your browser, then this activity is saved in the logs of your internet provider. I don't know for how long, but your internet provider has a sort of internet history of you.
They can request this and if they see that you played there in the same period (2-3 weeks before the money was received), then they have proof. They also investigate and know which casino groups are behind certain accounts.
Ok, it would be interesting to know what e.g. 1&1 really stores exactly and for how long, but then let's tick off the topic of Real IP here, let's continue with VPN in general and Unique non Blacklisted socks5 Proxy quasi a Non Log socks5 Proxy whose IP only you use. (There are a lot of mostly Russian providers who throw such proxies behind you for pennies) (These proxies are also not recognized by the online casino as a proxy or VPN) How should it be proven here in which country I was at the time of playing?
hustlehoff wrote on 26.04.2024 at 15:47: Ok, it would be interesting to know what e.g. 1&1 really stores exactly and for how long but then let's tick off the topic Real IP here, let's continue with VPN in general and Unique non Blacklisted socks5 Proxy quasi a Non Log socks5 Proxy whose IP only you use. (There are a lot of mostly Russian providers who throw proxies like this behind you for pennies) (These proxies are also not recognized by the online casino as a proxy or VPN) How should it be proven here in which country I was at the time of playing?
I have written that there are secure VPNs, but I will not comment on them.
However, there are VPNs that cooperate and pass on logs.
and before you have the question again: you don't just go to www.illegalescasino.de, you go to the slots and they all have different URLs etc. You really don't need the data from the OC.
hustlehoff wrote on 26.04.2024 at 15:54: does it matter where the traffic goes if it is tunneled?
yes, but that's not what I mean. I meant that if there is no tunnel, then you don't need an OC to provide you with the data, because you can see all the URLs from the logs of your internet provider.
That's right, ok, then let's tick off the gambling with pure real IP. Let's continue legally with VPN, possibly non-blacklisted proxies + payout to the bank account. I mean, any bank can just cancel your account because they don't want you as a customer without even giving you the reason for the cancellation (which is a real mess anyway), but how does it look here in court? There is simply no proof that you were not at the location of the proxy ... of course it is a prerequisite that you are allowed to play with proxy / VPN at the online casino at all - you should discuss this in detail with the Live Chat / terms and conditions or experience reports from other players beforehand.
What about people who live really close to the border and drive over to gamble online?
Besides, even if every bank blocks you, some German bank must by law give you an account that you simply cannot block or cancel? (we are still in the scenario where you have legally won at an online casino while abroad and withdraw to your German bank account)
"In principle, all consumers who are legally resident in the European Union are entitled to a basic account in accordance with the Payment Accounts Act ( ZKG ). This also includes persons without a permanent residence and asylum seekers."
hustlehoff wrote on 26.04.2024 at 16:10: That's right ok, then let's tick off the rip-off with pure real IP. Let's continue legally with VPN possibly non blacklisted proxies + payout to the bank account. I mean, any bank can just cancel your account because they don't want you as a customer without even giving you the reason for the cancellation (which is a real mess anyway), but how does it look here in court? There is simply no proof that you were not at the location of the proxy ... of course it is a prerequisite that you are allowed to play with proxy / VPN at the online casino at all - you should discuss this in detail with the Live Chat / terms and conditions or experience reports from other players beforehand.
I have no idea, I'm not a lawyer and I haven't been through any legal proceedings xD I suspect that most of those who have had to go to court have gambled without a VPN or similar.
You can't take legal action against a termination, as they are allowed to terminate for no reason. But how will they prove to you that you gambled? Difficult, but they could interpret it to mean that German citizens are generally not allowed to gamble in foreign casinos, regardless of where they are. It's different offline. If you fly to Malta, then you can also visit the casinos there, which is logical. But a "legal" online casino would have to verify you and this also includes your nationality.
A Belgian (who is visiting here in Germany) cannot register at Online Casinos either. You also need a registration address etc.
hustlehoff wrote on 26.04.2024 at 16:10:
What about people who live really close to the border and drive over for a short time to gamble online?
As I have already written, a Dutch person cannot register with a legal Provider here. In my opinion, it shouldn't be possible the other way around either.
hustlehoff wrote on 26.04.2024 at 16:10:
Besides, even if every bank blocks you, some German bank must by law give you an account that you simply cannot block or cancel? (we are still in the scenario you have legally won in the online casino abroad and have it paid out to your German bank account)
"In principle, all consumers who are legally resident in the European Union are entitled to a basic account in accordance with the Payment Accounts Act ( ZKG ). This also includes people without a permanent residence and asylum seekers."
Yes, you are entitled to an account. There is not only Bank X (where you will be terminated), but all other banks are available to you and they must at least offer you a basic account (i.e. without overdraft facility etc.).
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
Question 1 that somehow comes up the most here is how the heck are the authorities supposed to know which country you were in when gambling?
As far as I know, the law of the country you are in always applies. And why shouldn't you be allowed to use your German account for payouts in this case? The win was made legally abroad.
Of course, the online casino could give out your IP address in response to official requests from the police in Germany, but honestly, why should they? Do they even have to store it for longer than a week? (if at all?)
Why don't unlicensed Online Casinos simply allow Germans to use a VPN?
Questions upon questions.
Could it just be that they are witch-hunting people who simply don't defend themselves legally? (I am not affected)
Please don't answer like just use Crypto or Jeton Wallet etc. That's not the point here.
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Liked this post:
bigbig, 
btssultan, 
dersawen, 
Simbda, 
WhatAboutTism, 
XXLEONIDASXX
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
Answer to question 1: You could have the internet Provider find out. I don't know how long they store logs, but if they suspect a criminal offense, they can access the logs and prove that you were on the German network.
Theoretically, even with a VPN you are not safe. It depends on which one you use. But I'll leave it without comment as to which VPN is secure.
I doubt that OCs give out IPs. It's more likely to be the internet providers.
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
And how is that supposed to work? How would they know on what day and at what time your win was in the unlicensed online casino? That's a mystery to me. That would only be possible if they get the data from the online casino directly, when you won there and at what time, and then ask your Internet provider whether you were online at home on that day and time and whether your traffic to the casino took place? WTF:D
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
Banks report "strange" incoming money or forward it accordingly and they investigate. If they have a warrant, then they can force providers to hand over the logs and the logs are proof that you were playing in Germany.
Logs not only contain your IP, but also your MAC address and some other information.
An OC does not report anything, especially not to any German authorities. Why would they do that? They would be p**sing down their own throats. Unlike OCs, providers have to respond to the authorities because they are based in Germany.
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Liked this post:
XXLEONIDASXX
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
You would first have to know what is written in such an indictment or complaint. Are the casinos named there exactly? Is the exact place and time mentioned? Or only the amount that was paid out? Do banks always recognize the exact origin of payouts? So banks are definitely involved in disclosing data, not just providers
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
if you go to www.illegalescasino.com in your browser, then this activity is saved in the logs of your internet provider. I don't know for how long, but your internet provider has a sort of internet history of you.
They can request this and if they see that you played there in the same period (2-3 weeks before the money was received), then they have proof. They also investigate and know which casino groups are behind certain accounts.
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
I have written that there are secure VPNs, but I will not comment on them.
However, there are VPNs that cooperate and pass on logs.
and before you have the question again: you don't just go to www.illegalescasino.de, you go to the slots and they all have different URLs etc. You really don't need the data from the OC.
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
yes, but that's not what I mean. I meant that if there is no tunnel, then you don't need an OC to provide you with the data, because you can see all the URLs from the logs of your internet provider.
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Nobody has liked this post so far
What about people who live really close to the border and drive over to gamble online?
Besides, even if every bank blocks you, some German bank must by law give you an account that you simply cannot block or cancel? (we are still in the scenario where you have legally won at an online casino while abroad and withdraw to your German bank account)
"In principle, all consumers who are legally resident in the European Union are entitled to a basic account in accordance with the Payment Accounts Act ( ZKG ). This also includes persons without a permanent residence and asylum seekers."
This post has been translated automatically
Still illegal play discussion thread
Liked this post:
hustlehoff
I have no idea, I'm not a lawyer and I haven't been through any legal proceedings xD I suspect that most of those who have had to go to court have gambled without a VPN or similar.
You can't take legal action against a termination, as they are allowed to terminate for no reason. But how will they prove to you that you gambled? Difficult, but they could interpret it to mean that German citizens are generally not allowed to gamble in foreign casinos, regardless of where they are. It's different offline. If you fly to Malta, then you can also visit the casinos there, which is logical. But a "legal" online casino would have to verify you and this also includes your nationality.
A Belgian (who is visiting here in Germany) cannot register at Online Casinos either. You also need a registration address etc.
As I have already written, a Dutch person cannot register with a legal Provider here. In my opinion, it shouldn't be possible the other way around either.
Yes, you are entitled to an account. There is not only Bank X (where you will be terminated), but all other banks are available to you and they must at least offer you a basic account (i.e. without overdraft facility etc.).
This post has been translated automatically