Topic created on 08th Sep. 2018 | Page: 8 of 25 | Answers: 248 | Views: 118,161
s****e
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Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
9th Sep. 2018, at 01:26 am CEST#71
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Yes, thank you, I wish you the same!
Do you have to show an ID when playing the lottery in Malta?
My otherwise it does not work, right?
So with a gambling ban!
Otherwise I can agree with you. The only advantage of casinos in Germany
would be the cheaper and especially shorter way. And you do not need a lawyer for
maltese law.
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
9th Sep. 2018, at 01:39 am CEST#72
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ing-diba has replied to a service request.
however, the request was not worded like the reekmann/lenné letters, i.e. without specific paragraphs.
[citation]:
You authorized the debit entries to which you refer when you used your VISA Card for this purpose. In the use of the card for a so-called online payment transaction lies at the same time the granting of the payment order and its authorization (see Jungmann in MüKo, 7th ed., § 275, Rn 57). For this reason, ING-DiBa AG was entitled pursuant to sections 675 (1), 675c (1), 670 of the German Civil Code (BGB) to debit your checking account with the amount paid to the VISA contracting company on the basis of the respective card order.
It does not constitute a substantial objection if it is asserted that the debits originate from so-called online gambling. The principle of formal order strictness, which is expressed in section 675r of the BGB, applies to payment transactions. ING-DiBa is entitled to execute payment transactions solely on the basis of the customer ID provided. ING-DiBa does not owe any Verification of the legal relationship between the payer and the payee and, moreover, is not obligated to perform a verification of the legal relationship between the payer and the payee from the data of the payment transaction within the scope of the largely automated payment transactions.
In addition, it was and is not possible for ING-DiBa to determine from the data of the payment transaction whether the card transaction resulted from an illegal gambling agreement with an unlicensed company. This is already evident from the fact that ING-DiBa cannot identify from the data of the payment transaction where the payer was when he initiated the payment. It is therefore out of the question to reverse the debit entries in question.
Finally, we refer to Section I No. 6 of the terms and conditions for the VISA Card. It has been agreed that payment transactions using the VISA Card cannot be revoked by the cardholder and that any claims arising from the relationship must be dealt with. Therefore, please contact the respective companies directly.
Regarding the fee for lottery transactions with the VISA Card: Yes, that's right - you have received credits for the fee incurred up to 01.07.2018. The reason for this can be found in the letter dated 03.09.2018. No further refunds will be made, as the fee is legally permissible. Therefore, we will continue the calculation in the future.
[End of quote]
let's see what the lawyer says about it....
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s****e
Forum posts:1.004Member has been banned
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
9th Sep. 2018, at 01:43 am CEST#73
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Yes, me too. That they do not shout hurray, and directly transfer the money, is clear.
since such a package is laced with various terms and conditions and laws, to the
to unsettle the customer. whether this is really so, or has consisted, can ultimately only say
a lawyer can say
The fact is that my bank at the time some instant transfers to online casinos
has blocked. That is, they can or could probably check it, if they wanted to
wanted
I still remember well the hick-hack with the faulty revocation instructions
in the case of real estate financing. The issue was the early release from the home loan,
because the interest rates had fallen so much. Normally, this costs tens of thousands of euros in early repayment fees!
The banks took the matter to the highest court.
Had however no chance. It was only about the fact that one could not recognize, when the
14-day revocation period of the credit begins. Actually nonsense, it begins with the disbursement.
But the judges saw it differently.
That's why you have to take it easy for now.
This post has been translated automatically
M****7
Forum posts:14Member has been banned
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
That's how I see it, too. They shoot first and hope that they won't be sued. In any case, I will go all the way.
I am curious and I will keep you up to date.
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Anonym
Former Member
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
20th Sep. 2018, at 11:09 pm CEST#75
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Liked this post: Anonym
Personally, I don't like the reports from ÖR at all. It doesn't matter whether it's about warnings or gambling. The reports are characterized by the fact that many processes are simplified and simply completely misrepresented.
In the video, it was said quite often "Online Casinos are banned everywhere in Germany, except in Schleswig-Holstein". An unsophisticated viewer would now believe that every online casino is legal in Schleswig-Holstein at once and not in all other federal states. This is, of course, not the case. The only difference to the other federal states is that a few online casinos actually still have a Schleswig-Holstein license. For this then sunmaker, for example, also has an extra casino page for players from Schleswig-Holstein. There, of course, you will find far fewer games.
As I said, generally the topic of "license" was not addressed at all. Instead, it's just blanket ban, ban, ban. Likewise, the ECJ was not mentioned in relation to the unspeakable gambling monopoly (though that would also be strange from a state broadcaster like ÖR).
Finally, the chargeback story, which was mentioned there praising. With losses then the players say gladly "that was illegal, then I would like to have the money again back". The same players would certainly not be pleased if the state would say "But the gambling was illegal, so the win will be confiscated".
I wouldn't object at all to a detailed documentation on the topic of online casinos & Gambling addiction, but I don't see a blanket "everything is forbidden" as an outstanding documentation, especially when the ÖR has more than €9 billion per year at its disposal.
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
2nd Dec. 2018, at 12:07 pm CET#76
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has anyone now gone to the lawyer and claimed their money from the banks?
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Anonym
Former Member
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
5th Dec. 2018, at 06:14 pm CET#77
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am actually in the process and have today a phone call with the law firm lenne from Leverkusen led!
He is very sure in the matter..however, he also told me that you must have taken damage.
I should calculate my profit payments against the losses and fees of ING Diba.
He also said that the judgment of 21.02.2018 in Munich Az 158 C 19107/17 which was won against the Landes Bank Berlin is already very good for players / plaintiffs.
However the Ing Diba has its seat in Frankfurt means one would have to complain in Frankfurt.
I send now the sample letter of the Kanzlei Lenne to the Ing Diba and will sue to 100% against the bank
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G****e
verified
Forum posts:2.080Member has been banned
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
6th Dec. 2018, at 05:25 am CET#78
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Moin. How far could one Deposit then retroactively back? 9 months ago I had also lost control, but could deposit one after the other there were in one day a good 5000 euros in 500 steps gone. Would be nice if someone could answer me whether I would have a chance to get back at least a part or not
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Anonym
Former Member
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
6th Dec. 2018, at 07:56 am CET#79
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Gamble wrote on 06.12.2018 at 05:25 Clock: Moin. How far could one then Deposit retroactively back? 9 months ago I had also lost control, but was able to deposit one by one there were a good 5000 euros in one day in 500 increments gone. Would be nice if someone could answer me whether I would have a chance to get back at least a part or not.
Up to 13 months, you have to list all bookings that should be charged back individually. There are free documents online, so you can try it on your own. But I know that you almost always (no case experienced where it went without) help from the lawyer needed.
Therefore, you should not hesitate too long, but I would also like to point out that you should calculate payments and deposits against each other in advance. The chance that it fails always exists, it did not happen, but some banks and other credit companies let it come up to the statement of claim. And as Daniel already wrote, someone who does this should clearly stop gambling or get help. Anyone who back-books and throws it back in a short time later is really the lowest standard from a human point of view.
This post has been translated automatically
G****e
verified
Forum posts:2.080Member has been banned
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
Do you have to show an ID when playing the lottery in Malta?
My otherwise it does not work, right?
So with a gambling ban!
Otherwise I can agree with you. The only advantage of casinos in Germany
would be the cheaper and especially shorter way. And you do not need a lawyer for
maltese law.
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
however, the request was not worded like the reekmann/lenné letters, i.e. without specific paragraphs.
[citation]:
You authorized the debit entries to which you refer when you used your VISA Card for this purpose. In the use of the card for a so-called online payment transaction lies at the same time the granting of the payment order and its authorization (see Jungmann in MüKo, 7th ed., § 275, Rn 57). For this reason, ING-DiBa AG was entitled pursuant to sections 675 (1), 675c (1), 670 of the German Civil Code (BGB) to debit your checking account with the amount paid to the VISA contracting company on the basis of the respective card order.
It does not constitute a substantial objection if it is asserted that the debits originate from so-called online gambling. The principle of formal order strictness, which is expressed in section 675r of the BGB, applies to payment transactions. ING-DiBa is entitled to execute payment transactions solely on the basis of the customer ID provided. ING-DiBa does not owe any Verification of the legal relationship between the payer and the payee and, moreover, is not obligated to perform a verification of the legal relationship between the payer and the payee from the data of the payment transaction within the scope of the largely automated payment transactions.
In addition, it was and is not possible for ING-DiBa to determine from the data of the payment transaction whether the card transaction resulted from an illegal gambling agreement with an unlicensed company. This is already evident from the fact that ING-DiBa cannot identify from the data of the payment transaction where the payer was when he initiated the payment. It is therefore out of the question to reverse the debit entries in question.
Finally, we refer to Section I No. 6 of the terms and conditions for the VISA Card. It has been agreed that payment transactions using the VISA Card cannot be revoked by the cardholder and that any claims arising from the relationship must be dealt with. Therefore, please contact the respective companies directly.
Regarding the fee for lottery transactions with the VISA Card: Yes, that's right - you have received credits for the fee incurred up to 01.07.2018. The reason for this can be found in the letter dated 03.09.2018. No further refunds will be made, as the fee is legally permissible. Therefore, we will continue the calculation in the future.
[End of quote]
let's see what the lawyer says about it....
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
since such a package is laced with various terms and conditions and laws, to the
to unsettle the customer. whether this is really so, or has consisted, can ultimately only say
a lawyer can say
The fact is that my bank at the time some instant transfers to online casinos
has blocked. That is, they can or could probably check it, if they wanted to
wanted
I still remember well the hick-hack with the faulty revocation instructions
in the case of real estate financing. The issue was the early release from the home loan,
because the interest rates had fallen so much. Normally, this costs tens of thousands of euros in early repayment fees!
The banks took the matter to the highest court.
Had however no chance. It was only about the fact that one could not recognize, when the
14-day revocation period of the credit begins. Actually nonsense, it begins with the disbursement.
But the judges saw it differently.
That's why you have to take it easy for now.
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Liked this post:
Leoleo, 
SNO22
That's how I see it, too. They shoot first and hope that they won't be sued. In any case, I will go all the way.
I am curious and I will keep you up to date.
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Liked this post: Anonym
In the video, it was said quite often "Online Casinos are banned everywhere in Germany, except in Schleswig-Holstein". An unsophisticated viewer would now believe that every online casino is legal in Schleswig-Holstein at once and not in all other federal states. This is, of course, not the case. The only difference to the other federal states is that a few online casinos actually still have a Schleswig-Holstein license. For this then sunmaker, for example, also has an extra casino page for players from Schleswig-Holstein. There, of course, you will find far fewer games.
As I said, generally the topic of "license" was not addressed at all. Instead, it's just blanket ban, ban, ban. Likewise, the ECJ was not mentioned in relation to the unspeakable gambling monopoly (though that would also be strange from a state broadcaster like ÖR).
Finally, the chargeback story, which was mentioned there praising. With losses then the players say gladly "that was illegal, then I would like to have the money again back". The same players would certainly not be pleased if the state would say "But the gambling was illegal, so the win will be confiscated".
I wouldn't object at all to a detailed documentation on the topic of online casinos & Gambling addiction, but I don't see a blanket "everything is forbidden" as an outstanding documentation, especially when the ÖR has more than €9 billion per year at its disposal.
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
He is very sure in the matter..however, he also told me that you must have taken damage.
I should calculate my profit payments against the losses and fees of ING Diba.
He also said that the judgment of 21.02.2018 in Munich Az 158 C 19107/17 which was won against the Landes Bank Berlin is already very good for players / plaintiffs.
However the Ing Diba has its seat in Frankfurt means one would have to complain in Frankfurt.
I send now the sample letter of the Kanzlei Lenne to the Ing Diba and will sue to 100% against the bank
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
Up to 13 months, you have to list all bookings that should be charged back individually. There are free documents online, so you can try it on your own. But I know that you almost always (no case experienced where it went without) help from the lawyer needed.
Therefore, you should not hesitate too long, but I would also like to point out that you should calculate payments and deposits against each other in advance. The chance that it fails always exists, it did not happen, but some banks and other credit companies let it come up to the statement of claim. And as Daniel already wrote, someone who does this should clearly stop gambling or get help. Anyone who back-books and throws it back in a short time later is really the lowest standard from a human point of view.
This post has been translated automatically
Reportage - Online casinos: Money back from illegal gambling
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically