Sweden does not seem to be in panic, but yes, I know what comes now again.... and for it I need no crystal ball:
Now comments come again because of: oh, there will be the dead also still pile up on the street......
wait and see
what I observe is that intensively renowned doctors who say they do not understand the current hype are massively torn apart by the media, but I do not see a professional dialogue between two explorers/scientists/virologists who openly discuss their different views.
It is not only Dr. Wodarg, who was never denied his expertise until his Corona statements,
If it were only Dr Wodarg who is skeptical of the current measures, one could simply dismiss it, but the voices of the critics are increasing.
Other specialists and virologists have joined Dr Wodarg and were also massively attacked, I am not looking for all out now, you can do yourself
also on the following side all does not sound sooo terrible at all
Source :
https://www.ndr.de/ratgeber/gesundheit/Coronavirus-Fragen-und-Antworten,corona100.html
How dangerous is an infection with the new coronavirus?
Quote from:
This cannot be conclusively assessed at present. The Robert Koch Institute (RKI) classifies the risk assessment for the health of the population in Germany since March 17 as high. It is a very dynamic and serious situation worldwide and in Germany. In 80 percent of cases, the course of the disease is mild to moderate. In some cases, however, the course of the disease is severe, and there are also fatal cases. Overall, the course of the disease varies greatly. Also the Federal center for health clearing-up refers to figures of the World Health Organization WHO, according to which about four of five illnesses proceed mildly.
The much-cited RKI expresses itself the following:
"The president of the German Robert Koch Institute confirmed that the RKI records all test-positive deaths, regardless of the true cause of death, as "corona deaths" . The average age of deaths is 82 years, most with pre-existing conditions, he said.
MOMENT: WHAT IS HE SAYING???? regardless of the REAL cause of death????🤔🤔🤔🤔
HOW do you understand THIS now???
someone gets hit by a car, falls off a ladder, dies of a stroke, they are automatically listed as a Corona victim?
hmmm, then of course I can pay that the numbers will increase
wasn't it the same in Italy?
Quote:
Professor Karin Mölling, former director of the Institute of Medical Virology at the University of Zurich: No killer virus, stop scaremongering.
The U.K. has removed Covid19 from its list of dangerous infectious diseases, saying mortality rates are "low overall."
In Italy, the overall national mortality rate for the 65+ age group up to March 7 was even lower than in previous years; this was particularly due to the mild winter."
https://swprs.org/covid-19-hinweis-ii/
in general it is called to report comments and reports that would trivialize the virus
i don't search that out now, the pages where you can report something like that you can find quickly thanks to google itself
while Mathias Döpfner, head of Axel Springer Verlag said the following in the "Welt "on 23.03.20
about the role of the media in the crisis:
"Journalists are - under acceptance of special personal risks - what they have not been for a long time. Our window on the world. Our filter of truth. They have an enormous responsibility. And I think: All in all, they live up to this responsibility in an impressive way. [...] But nothing must change about the mission of journalists, even in a crisis. Especially not then. They should continue to doubt and question. What is needed now is not only solidarity and public spirit, but also criticism. And above all, diversity of information and opinions. We don't need centralized propaganda, but a competition of critical intelligence. Perhaps the crisis will also make us more aware of the value of independent journalism."
The Tagesschau comes up with rather dramatic titles, such as:
We are only at thebeginning of a pandemic
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/pandemie-101.html
( please note, comments have been disabled)
and: the head of the WHO is not that uncontroversial either
https://www.saechsische.de/dr-tedros-bewaeltigt-sein-kindheitstrauma-3690407.html
Conclusion:
-on the one hand, the opinions of various scientists on the topic of corona are in awesome contrast
-the numbers vary depending on the source
-on the other hand criminal consequences are demanded by politicians for any reporting which is not conform and approved
-while the boss of the Axel Springer publishing house supports free and differentiated reporting
one becomes from all sides with info regelrecht " infoziert"
however only one opinion is officially tolerated
everything only to our best and our protection
very many celebrities, politicians, footballers, politicians seems to have caught it also
and no, Greta has no Corona Virus, she THOUGHT she had it, but she didn't get tested, isolated herself for 2 weeks and recovered
@upola: ☺️yes, was shopping today too, there is still no toilet paper, but there were still quite a few alive people out and about
As for the body count, I find this link helpful:
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/faktenfuchs-wie-werden-corona-todesfaelle-gezaehlt,RtnpYVL
So dead people are counted who died directly from the virus or dead people who were infected and the cause of death is unclear. If it was obviously another cause of death like a car accident so of course not!
I think also that it is correct to remain always also critical
However, what drives me to always make my comment here is the following:
I believe that there are many people who can not or even do not want to properly classify a video like the one from Wordag. They watch it, don't question it further or even take it as a justification for their behavior
It must be clear to you that the mainstream media, in their hunt for readers, report in a very lurid and one-sided manner. But one must also be aware that many false reports are circulated or people want to get attention with questionable theories. On both sides one should always question assertions and make oneself in such a way its picture. Unfortunately, many people only know black or white
I also think that the virus itself is not particularly dangerous for the individual, nobody actually claims that. But if too many people fall ill at the same time, even a small group of people at Risk becomes a large group for whose treatment the capacities are not sufficient
To quote relatively low death figures at the moment is somehow not so meaningful, because nobody knows how the figures would be if the extreme measures taken had not been taken. At least they would not be lower
What makes me personally believe in the necessity of the measures:
That worldwide different governments with different political interests and religions and different explorers consider the measures or similar measures necessary
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Anonym
Former Member
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
25th Mar. 2020, at 10:43 pm CET#484
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Blubbo33 wrote on 23.03.2020 at 12:30 pm: I think many make it too easy for themselves here.
You blame everything on politics or politicians
Do you act too quickly, it is called imprudent, etc.
If they act too slowly, it's not right either.
You have to realize that this is a situation that no one knows or can foresee.
In my opinion, they are doing exactly the right thing, and it is up to everyone to comply and slow down the virus
And if someone comes to me now because of data protection, that is no longer to help, if I can save even one life, they can do with my data what they want.
You get excited about such crap, but for 5 free spins on nine cents, you register with all data in the casinos.
It is now a matter of saving lives, whether old or young, sick or healthy.
And if you are missing stockings, order them over the net. And if not, run barefoot
A joke what some give here from itself and there you also notice how awkward some seem.
And to get upset about dia starting conditions is also nonsense
You can go out, just without contact with others.
Of course, shopping isn't easy, but here, too, you have to be flexible. Then there are just no roulades with red cabbage and dumplings
There's enough other food, I'm already panicking when Mc Donald's closes and people are starving to death because they can't get cheeseburgers anymore.
Wise guy, then explain to me very quickly what the RKI does with cell phone data when they are anonymized...
what is the use of anonymized movement profiles?
is it possible to identify potential contact persons of carriers?
and this insinuation, which is not only a lie, but also pointless, incoherent and off-topic plus annaßend I can refute...I do not register in every Curacao Bude for 5 free games
and which data I give where and when voluntarily is also left to me and hst nothing to do with the fact that the fundamental rights of citizens with specious arguments are taken away
bevir you pistest something just think about it, if feasible
and your dear bone seems to be alive and well, otherwise he would not have written in the lottery thread today
Onion wrote on 25.03.2020 at 22:43
Wise guy, then you explain to me very quickly what the RKI does with cell phone data when it is anonymized...
what is the use of anonymized movement profiles?
can one make thereby potential contact persons of transmitters catch????
and this insinuation, which is not only a lie, but also pointless, incoherent and off-topic plus assuming, I can refute...I do not register in every Curacao booth for 5 free games
and which data I give where and when voluntarily is also left to me and hst nothing to do with the fact that the fundamental rights of citizens with specious arguments are taken away
bevir you pistest something just think about it, if feasible
and your dear bone seems to be alive and well, otherwise he would not have posted in the lottery thread today
Seeing if movement currents have changed after the measures were introduced:
Stromberg wrote on 03/25/2020 at 10:30 pm
As for counting the dead, I find this link helpful:
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/faktenfuchs-wie-werden-corona-todesfaelle-gezaehlt,RtnpYVL
So it counts deaths that died directly from the virus or deaths that were infected and the cause of death is unclear. If it was obviously another cause of death like a car accident so of course not!
I think also that it is correct to remain always also critical
However, what drives me to always make my comment here is the following:
I believe that there are many people who can not or even do not want to properly classify a video like the one from Wordag. They watch it, don't question it further or even take it as a justification for their behavior
It must be clear to you that the mainstream media, in their hunt for readers, report in a very lurid and one-sided manner. But one must also be aware that many false reports are circulated or people want to get attention with questionable theories. On both sides one should always question assertions and make oneself in such a way its picture. Unfortunately, many people only know black or white
I also think that the virus itself is not particularly dangerous for the individual, nobody actually claims that. But if too many people fall ill at the same time, even a small group of people at Risk becomes a large group for whose treatment the capacities are not sufficient
To quote relatively low death rates at the moment is somehow not so meaningful, because nobody knows how the numbers would be if the extreme measures taken had not been taken. At least they would not be lower
What makes me personally believe in the necessity of the measures:
That worldwide different governments with different political interests and religions and different explorers consider the measures or similar measures necessary
first of all, i think it's generally good to be critical
that massive censorship is done, YT channels are blocked (or should be blocked), comments are deactivated, leaves more room for speculation and the MSM look rather bad, so rather counterproductive
an open discussion would be certainly more conducive than with censorship and threat of punishment to come
well, Belarus and Sweden don't see it that way and there are no piles of corpses, which is surprising in view of the alleged danger
we will see how it develops there
many explorers say that people do not die from the virus itself, but from the body's reaction to it, but that does not change the result
well in general it seems to be more a matter of faith......
accurate tests and no causes of death without concrete evidence of the cause of death automatically count as Corona cases would also be more meaningful, or not?
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Anonym
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Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
25th Mar. 2020, at 10:58 pm CET#487
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Stromberg wrote on 03/25/2020 at 10:49 pm
Looking to see if movement flows have changed after the measures were introduced:
well, and all I can think of is that people constantly have some kind of infection, bacteria and whatever else in them
because you could also say that 70-80% of people are infected with HPV viruses in their lives, every person who has died and in which these are detectable died of it
Propaganda???
RT also reports thousands dead in Italy and Spain
must the constitutional protection be involved IF the report of Bild should be true???
has the constitutional protection nothing more important to do in times of extremism in any form???
RT is propaganda because financed by the Russian government
BUT the ÖR, which are financed in this country by the GEZ are of course not....
By the way onion, the corporate aid is necessary otherwise you will have more homeless in 2 years.
The company aid is designed in such a way that only the companies without liquid funds, i.e. in existential distress, can receive the subsidy. All others must sell shares or take out a loan. Without this package of measures which can cushion at most the next few weeks, the consequences in the economy would be more dramatic.
All stores that have not set up online or can not set up are now dying. Especially niche sellers and specialty retailers have no chance. Just at Easter where a large sales block is the business fails and many companies get at such times at all win.
The homeless were helped already before too little and that is because there is at present hoarding purchases badly for the table because they get nothing more. The whole structure is missing with the homeless assistance. For it help however increased the fellow men, straight now a few humans make up for that which the state does not want to do. I can hardly distinguish between the homeless and the sham homeless, but at the moment I almost always throw in some money. Even if it is only for the Gutmensch feeling.
Kleinkariert wrote on 03/26/2020 at 01:37: By the way Onion, the business aid is necessary otherwise you will have more homeless in 2 years.
The company aid is so structured that only the companies without liquid funds, i.e. in existential distress, can receive the grant aid. All others must sell shares or take out a loan. Without this package of measures which can cushion at most the next few weeks, the consequences in the economy would be more dramatic.
All stores that have not set up online or can not set up are now dying. Especially niche sellers and specialty retailers have no chance. Just at Easter where a large sales block is the business fails and many companies get at such times at all win.
The homeless were helped already before too little and that is because there is at present hoarding purchases badly for the table because they get nothing more. The whole structure is missing with the homeless assistance. For it help however increased the fellow men, straight now a few humans make up for that which the state does not want to do. I can hardly distinguish between the homeless and the sham homeless, but at the moment I almost always throw in some money. Even if it is only for the Gutmensch feeling.
what kind of statement is that?
"for the good-feeling"????
you know, who does good and helps needy people does it with heart and out of empathy and not to look like a do-gooder
you do it because you like to help and not to pursue an agenda
there are also charitable organizations that care, without them the misery would be even worse
if there is money for the economy/companies, then a little help for poor and homeless people is no longer an issue, especially since the national Debt clock has been running rapidly backwards lately
-BILD has revoked its FakeNews that RT is being watched by the Office for the Protection of the Constitution
-Health effects of a lockdown :
A 2010 omnibus study that summarized 148 studies on the health effects of social isolation concluded that social isolation has the greatest negative impact on our lifespan. Significantly ahead of alcoholism and obesity.
The previously indefinite lockdown and no-contact rule that the government enacted as a measure against the coronavirus has resulted in forced social isolation for single people. An increased suicide rate can be expected in the coming months.
But the measure will also lead to negative consequences in households with several people. For example, the federal government expects a significant increase in domestic violence
-there is also news on the subject of mortality rates
who reads this text has understood where it goes wrong
Trump is accused of being afraid, irresponsible, it is unclear whether his decision has been agreed with the Senate, the economy is more important to him than human lives (of course, this remains unmentioned):
https://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/wirtschaft/article206693039/Trump-erschafft-ueber-Nacht-einen-Sozialstaat.html)
scary numbers and gloomy forecasts are made
This Tagesschau report is definitely NOT neutral, not factual
on the other hand, you should read this text on the same topic:
https://www.legitim.ch/post/trump-will-notstand-lockern-massnahmen-sollten-nicht-schlimmer-als-das-problem-selbst-sein
ERGO
who still has not realized that it is more than questionable when serious reporting in the news looks like this can not be helped anymore
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Anonym
Former Member
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
26th Mar. 2020, at 03:22 am CET#492
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i will write nothing more here and leave the users who report here about stacked body bags in ice rinks and on the streets, which we will still get to see their valued opinion after...😷🤧🤒
since I myself know no Corona infected people I would still be interested in how it was bone with it, he wrote here that he has it, maybe he is so nice and shares his experiences here with
have here also many worried about him
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Liked this post:
Counter
As for the body count, I find this link helpful:
https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/faktenfuchs-wie-werden-corona-todesfaelle-gezaehlt,RtnpYVL
So dead people are counted who died directly from the virus or dead people who were infected and the cause of death is unclear. If it was obviously another cause of death like a car accident so of course not!
I think also that it is correct to remain always also critical
However, what drives me to always make my comment here is the following:
I believe that there are many people who can not or even do not want to properly classify a video like the one from Wordag. They watch it, don't question it further or even take it as a justification for their behavior
It must be clear to you that the mainstream media, in their hunt for readers, report in a very lurid and one-sided manner. But one must also be aware that many false reports are circulated or people want to get attention with questionable theories. On both sides one should always question assertions and make oneself in such a way its picture. Unfortunately, many people only know black or white
I also think that the virus itself is not particularly dangerous for the individual, nobody actually claims that. But if too many people fall ill at the same time, even a small group of people at Risk becomes a large group for whose treatment the capacities are not sufficient
To quote relatively low death figures at the moment is somehow not so meaningful, because nobody knows how the figures would be if the extreme measures taken had not been taken. At least they would not be lower
What makes me personally believe in the necessity of the measures:
That worldwide different governments with different political interests and religions and different explorers consider the measures or similar measures necessary
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Nobody has liked this post so far
Wise guy, then explain to me very quickly what the RKI does with cell phone data when they are anonymized...
what is the use of anonymized movement profiles?
is it possible to identify potential contact persons of carriers?
and this insinuation, which is not only a lie, but also pointless, incoherent and off-topic plus annaßend I can refute...I do not register in every Curacao Bude for 5 free games
and which data I give where and when voluntarily is also left to me and hst nothing to do with the fact that the fundamental rights of citizens with specious arguments are taken away
bevir you pistest something just think about it, if feasible
and your dear bone seems to be alive and well, otherwise he would not have written in the lottery thread today
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Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
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Seeing if movement currents have changed after the measures were introduced:
https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/coronavirus-telekom-uebergibt-zweiten-handydatensatz-ans-robert-koch-institut-a-b1659a1f-7715-41d3-9c7a-685512940090
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first of all, i think it's generally good to be critical
that massive censorship is done, YT channels are blocked (or should be blocked), comments are deactivated, leaves more room for speculation and the MSM look rather bad, so rather counterproductive
an open discussion would be certainly more conducive than with censorship and threat of punishment to come
well, Belarus and Sweden don't see it that way and there are no piles of corpses, which is surprising in view of the alleged danger
we will see how it develops there
many explorers say that people do not die from the virus itself, but from the body's reaction to it, but that does not change the result
well in general it seems to be more a matter of faith......
accurate tests and no causes of death without concrete evidence of the cause of death automatically count as Corona cases would also be more meaningful, or not?
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to read this I will definitely not pay a Spiegel subscription, they will soon get enough money from another source....
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well, and all I can think of is that people constantly have some kind of infection, bacteria and whatever else in them
because you could also say that 70-80% of people are infected with HPV viruses in their lives, every person who has died and in which these are detectable died of it
https://www.entschiedengegenkrebs.de/
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http://web.archive.org/web/20200324195100/https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/verfassungsschutz-prueft-rt-deutsch-wegen-corona-propaganda-69590688,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html
Propaganda???
RT also reports thousands dead in Italy and Spain
must the constitutional protection be involved IF the report of Bild should be true???
has the constitutional protection nothing more important to do in times of extremism in any form???
RT is propaganda because financed by the Russian government
BUT the ÖR, which are financed in this country by the GEZ are of course not....
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Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Nobody has liked this post so far
The company aid is designed in such a way that only the companies without liquid funds, i.e. in existential distress, can receive the subsidy. All others must sell shares or take out a loan. Without this package of measures which can cushion at most the next few weeks, the consequences in the economy would be more dramatic.
All stores that have not set up online or can not set up are now dying. Especially niche sellers and specialty retailers have no chance. Just at Easter where a large sales block is the business fails and many companies get at such times at all win.
The homeless were helped already before too little and that is because there is at present hoarding purchases badly for the table because they get nothing more. The whole structure is missing with the homeless assistance. For it help however increased the fellow men, straight now a few humans make up for that which the state does not want to do. I can hardly distinguish between the homeless and the sham homeless, but at the moment I almost always throw in some money. Even if it is only for the Gutmensch feeling.
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what kind of statement is that?
"for the good-feeling"????
you know, who does good and helps needy people does it with heart and out of empathy and not to look like a do-gooder
you do it because you like to help and not to pursue an agenda
there are also charitable organizations that care, without them the misery would be even worse
if there is money for the economy/companies, then a little help for poor and homeless people is no longer an issue, especially since the national Debt clock has been running rapidly backwards lately
-BILD has revoked its FakeNews that RT is being watched by the Office for the Protection of the Constitution
-Health effects of a lockdown :
A 2010 omnibus study that summarized 148 studies on the health effects of social isolation concluded that social isolation has the greatest negative impact on our lifespan. Significantly ahead of alcoholism and obesity.
The previously indefinite lockdown and no-contact rule that the government enacted as a measure against the coronavirus has resulted in forced social isolation for single people. An increased suicide rate can be expected in the coming months.
But the measure will also lead to negative consequences in households with several people. For example, the federal government expects a significant increase in domestic violence
-there is also news on the subject of mortality rates
https://m.focus.de/gesundheit/news/widerspricht-who-angaben-forscherteam-berechnet-niedrigere-sterberate-aber-nicht-fuer-alle-gruppen_id_11809402.html
-Austria: protest letter, interesting
https://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/OTS_20200325_OTS0110/offener-protest-brief-an-politik-und-medien-aufruf-zur-aufhebung-der-corona-zwangsmassnahmen-anhang
- the new police law in Mecklenburg Vorpommern has been enforced, without the current crisis there would probably have been more criticism
https://www.nordkurier.de/mecklenburg-vorpommern/mv-landtag-beschliesst-neues-polizeigesetz-1138690803.html
Donald Trump plans to relax the measures in the U.S. soon
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/trump-neustart-wirtschaft-101.html
who reads this text has understood where it goes wrong
Trump is accused of being afraid, irresponsible, it is unclear whether his decision has been agreed with the Senate, the economy is more important to him than human lives (of course, this remains unmentioned):
https://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/wirtschaft/article206693039/Trump-erschafft-ueber-Nacht-einen-Sozialstaat.html)
scary numbers and gloomy forecasts are made
This Tagesschau report is definitely NOT neutral, not factual
on the other hand, you should read this text on the same topic:
https://www.legitim.ch/post/trump-will-notstand-lockern-massnahmen-sollten-nicht-schlimmer-als-das-problem-selbst-sein
ERGO
who still has not realized that it is more than questionable when serious reporting in the news looks like this can not be helped anymore
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since I myself know no Corona infected people I would still be interested in how it was bone with it, he wrote here that he has it, maybe he is so nice and shares his experiences here with
have here also many worried about him
stay healthy & be nice to each other😘😘😘
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