StarGames_Official wrote on 18.04.2024 at 22:02:
Thanks for your sarcastic comment.
We've explained it to you at least three times on this forum, but we're happy to explain it for the fourth and final time.
Of course, the tax bothers us the most. From a player's point of view, because we have to deal with feedback like yours every day, and also financially from our own point of view.
BUT.
1. The tax law is not part of the GGL. You can't change it.
2. The tax law was reviewed by the ECJ and found to be EU-compliant.
3. The tax law is not being reviewed by legislators because they argue with the taxes in various other products (sports betting, etc.), and say that if the tax in sports betting is 5% on bet, then it is only comparable and logical to take 5% on bet for slots as well.
We all know that it doesn't make sense. We just wanted to explain the context and why it is currently almost impossible to even start a discussion with legislators or gambling authorities.
We are therefore more interested in discussions where there is a realistic chance of changing or improving something.
As soon as such an opportunity arises in the future with regard to taxes, we will be one of the first to argue for it.
Yes, exactly what have they done in politics ???? If I make a sports bet and pay 5% on 1-2 sports bets, that's all well and good, but what about 1000-10,000 spins on a slot on auto or manually? Have they been drinking varnish or where is something like that comparable?
That would be like arguing that you pay 5% tax on the potato, then there must also be a 5% tax on every single French fry
They must not be ticking quite cleanly anymore, they were probably all picking up chalk in math class
How can you please equate a number that you can count on one hand with a bunch of spins?
Tax per spin is just the stupidest thing you can do but... So for the customers for the state of course not... That is probably also the reason why they decided to do this and not like almost all other EU states for the gross gaming revenue... Greed, greed and even more greed by the state on the back of the players 👍
The side effect is that the channeling will probably not work in the long term... You wouldn't have guessed it... Experts certainly didn't warn of such a solo effort in taxation before the introduction of the Interstate Treaty on Gambling... But what the heck, let's just let the players play with 84% Rtp - they certainly won't mind 😉
StarGames still has some of the best Rtp within the GUTS casinos, but in an international comparison it's simply too bad and who knows when the next reduction will come... This is totally disadvantageous and frustrating for every player in this country...
Toastbrot wrote on 19.04.2024 at 01:23: Tax per spin is just the stupidest thing you can do but... So for the customers for the state of course not... That is probably also the reason why they decided to do this and not like almost all other EU states for the gross gaming revenue... Greed, greed and even more greed by the state on the back of the players 👍
Has its pros and cons. I'll take Italy as an example.
I know they don't charge tax online, but they do offline on certain machines.
There are many "old" machines in Italy. There you can win a maximum of €100 in one go, then the machine spits out the money. I haven't had any experience with this, but from the videos I've watched, I can say that you rarely go home with €200 or more (from just one machine). There is no tax here, but the RTP is not so good An example of such games would be "Fowl Play Gold"
Anyway, there is another category of machines called "VLT (Video Lottery Terminal)". These are the machines we are familiar with.
According to Wiki, VLTs are described like this:
"A video lottery terminal (VLT), also sometimes known as a video gaming terminal (VGT), video slots, or the video lottery, is a type of electronic gambling machine. They are typically operated by a region's lottery, and situated at licensed establishments such as bars and restaurants" (Video lottery terminal - Wikipedia)
From 200€ win 20% tax will be raised. So if you wanted to pay out €210, you would end up with €168. The higher the win, the higher the tax. I don't know which variant is better, but one thing is clear with both: long-term and high gaming is not worthwhile.
What's more, with the current variant (tax/spin), the state is sure to receive the tax, regardless of whether the player wins or loses.
StarGames_Official wrote on 18.04.2024 at 16:32: Dear forum members,
You have always given us detailed feedback here in this thread about our site but also about German gambling regulation. We have heard the feedback from you several times "do something about lobbying, you should be able to change a few things".
We listen to you, but we also need your help. We are currently conducting an anonymous survey, which should help us to discuss your (and our) wishes with the authorities and to be able to argue with facts and figures during these discussions.
It would therefore help us enormously if you could complete our survey at the following link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XLN2FVL
If the link is removed, you will simply find the survey on our site on the big banner on the homepage after you have logged in. However, we hope that this link will have a place here at GambleJoe so that we can have the necessary discussions together. There are already enough threads and postings about why German regulation is not attractive. Let's try to change it together.
frapi07 wrote on 19.04.2024 at 05:58:
Has its pros and cons. I'll take Italy as an example.
Online I know that they don't take tax, but offline with certain machines.
There are many "old" machines in Italy. There you can win a maximum of €100 in one go, then the machine spits out the money. I haven't had any experience with this, but from the videos I've watched, I can say that you rarely go home with €200 or more (from just one machine). No tax is charged here, but the RTP is not so good An example of such games would be "Fowl Play Gold"
Anyway, there is another category of machines called "VLT (Video Lottery Terminal)". These are the machines we are familiar with.
According to Wiki, VLTs are described like this:
"A video lottery terminal (VLT), also sometimes known as a video gaming terminal (VGT), video slots, or the video lottery, is a type of electronic gambling machine. They are typically operated by a region's lottery, and situated at licensed establishments such as bars and restaurants" (Video lottery terminal - Wikipedia)
From €200 win, 20% tax is added. So if you wanted to pay out €210, you would end up with €168. The higher the win, the higher the tax. I don't know which variant is better, but one thing is clear with both: long-term and high gaming is not worthwhile.
What's more, with the current variant (tax/spin), the state is sure of the tax, regardless of whether the player wins or loses.
A tax on a win is easily a hundred times fairer than this mess with tax/spin.
You can compare the video lottery terminals with the game boxes in our kebab stores or similar.
These have nothing to do with real casinos. Licensed Online Casinos in Italy have fair Rtp, autoplay etc.
I was also recently at Venice Casino Noghera and I can tell you that I was thrilled. Not just Merkur/Novomatic infested like most European casinos, but also a huge selection of Aristocrat, L&W, Konami, IGT etc. slots. Slots. I felt a bit like I was in a US casino...
If you're using Italy as an example. Gamblers like us definitely have it worlds better there than in the German Democratic Republic 2.0
mtorero wrote on 19.04.2024 at 15:21:
A tax on a win is easily a hundred times fairer than this shenanigans with tax/spin.
You can compare the video lottery terminals with the game boxes in our kebab stores or similar.
These have nothing to do with real casinos. Licensed Online Casinos in Italy have fair Rtp, autoplay etc.
I was also recently at Venice Casino Noghera and I can tell you that I was thrilled. Not only Merkur/Novomatic contaminated like a large part of European casinos, but also a huge selection of Aristocrat, L&W, Konami, IGT etc. slots. Slots. I felt a bit like I was in a US casino...
If you're using Italy as an example. Gamblers like us definitely have it worlds better there than in the German Democratic Republic 2.0
When betting, you also pay the tax per bet.
They see a spin as a bet. I can't say whether that's more unfair.
Yes, the VLT are like the Merkur boxes. Sorry if that wasn't so clear. They offer BoR and this dolphin game, among others.
Yes, the OCs in Italy have autoplay, higher bets etc. I watch an Italian gambler on YT, so I know that ^^ There are still rules, e.g. there are illegal sites, you can only "take" 1000€ per session (so when you open a game you have a maximum of 1000€ as a starting balance) etc.
I've never been to a real casino, but I know that they are very good.
Italy is better for gamblers because there is more gambling there. You can see that from the "scandals" Professional footballers and coaches who gamble in casinos or online casinos. You can also often find these older machines in "bars" or tobacco stores (i.e. no VLT).
Yoshi26 wrote on 21.04.2024 at 03:55: But let's talk about RTP and Steurn. Why do some games have 90 percent and others 87 percent. I don't understand that.
The RTP varies from game to game and from version to version. The RTP is not a fixed percentage.
A slot can have 95% with Provider A and 92% with provider B. Game X can also have 94% with provider A, while game Y only has 92%.
German slot versions usually have a much lower RTP than international versions because German players also pay the 5.3% tax (which is deducted from the RTP).
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Yes, exactly what have they done in politics ???? If I make a sports bet and pay 5% on 1-2 sports bets, that's all well and good, but what about 1000-10,000 spins on a slot on auto or manually? Have they been drinking varnish or where is something like that comparable?
That would be like arguing that you pay 5% tax on the potato, then there must also be a 5% tax on every single French fry
They must not be ticking quite cleanly anymore, they were probably all picking up chalk in math class
How can you please equate a number that you can count on one hand with a bunch of spins?
This post has been translated automatically
StarGames experience
Liked this post:
bigbig, 
Max_Bet, 
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Saphira, 
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The side effect is that the channeling will probably not work in the long term... You wouldn't have guessed it... Experts certainly didn't warn of such a solo effort in taxation before the introduction of the Interstate Treaty on Gambling... But what the heck, let's just let the players play with 84% Rtp - they certainly won't mind 😉
StarGames still has some of the best Rtp within the GUTS casinos, but in an international comparison it's simply too bad and who knows when the next reduction will come... This is totally disadvantageous and frustrating for every player in this country...
This post has been translated automatically
StarGames experience
Liked this post:
Toastbrot
Has its pros and cons. I'll take Italy as an example.
I know they don't charge tax online, but they do offline on certain machines.
There are many "old" machines in Italy. There you can win a maximum of €100 in one go, then the machine spits out the money. I haven't had any experience with this, but from the videos I've watched, I can say that you rarely go home with €200 or more (from just one machine). There is no tax here, but the RTP is not so good An example of such games would be "Fowl Play Gold"
Anyway, there is another category of machines called "VLT (Video Lottery Terminal)". These are the machines we are familiar with.
According to Wiki, VLTs are described like this:
"A video lottery terminal (VLT), also sometimes known as a video gaming terminal (VGT), video slots, or the video lottery, is a type of electronic gambling machine. They are typically operated by a region's lottery, and situated at licensed establishments such as bars and restaurants" (Video lottery terminal - Wikipedia)
From 200€ win 20% tax will be raised. So if you wanted to pay out €210, you would end up with €168. The higher the win, the higher the tax. I don't know which variant is better, but one thing is clear with both: long-term and high gaming is not worthwhile.
What's more, with the current variant (tax/spin), the state is sure to receive the tax, regardless of whether the player wins or loses.
This post has been translated automatically
StarGames experience
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StarGames_Official
Found the survey ok so far.
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StarGames experience
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StarGames_Official
Done. Make something of it 🐞
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StarGames experience
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bigbig
A tax on a win is easily a hundred times fairer than this mess with tax/spin.
You can compare the video lottery terminals with the game boxes in our kebab stores or similar.
These have nothing to do with real casinos. Licensed Online Casinos in Italy have fair Rtp, autoplay etc.
I was also recently at Venice Casino Noghera and I can tell you that I was thrilled. Not just Merkur/Novomatic infested like most European casinos, but also a huge selection of Aristocrat, L&W, Konami, IGT etc. slots. Slots. I felt a bit like I was in a US casino...
If you're using Italy as an example. Gamblers like us definitely have it worlds better there than in the German Democratic Republic 2.0
This post has been translated automatically
StarGames experience
Nobody has liked this post so far
When betting, you also pay the tax per bet.
They see a spin as a bet. I can't say whether that's more unfair.
Yes, the VLT are like the Merkur boxes. Sorry if that wasn't so clear. They offer BoR and this dolphin game, among others.
Yes, the OCs in Italy have autoplay, higher bets etc. I watch an Italian gambler on YT, so I know that ^^ There are still rules, e.g. there are illegal sites, you can only "take" 1000€ per session (so when you open a game you have a maximum of 1000€ as a starting balance) etc.
I've never been to a real casino, but I know that they are very good.
Italy is better for gamblers because there is more gambling there. You can see that from the "scandals" Professional footballers and coaches who gamble in casinos or online casinos. You can also often find these older machines in "bars" or tobacco stores (i.e. no VLT).
This post has been translated automatically
StarGames experience
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
StarGames experience
Nobody has liked this post so far
The RTP varies from game to game and from version to version. The RTP is not a fixed percentage.
A slot can have 95% with Provider A and 92% with provider B. Game X can also have 94% with provider A, while game Y only has 92%.
German slot versions usually have a much lower RTP than international versions because German players also pay the 5.3% tax (which is deducted from the RTP).
This post has been translated automatically
StarGames experience
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RebellYell
Are they honestly doing 50x Wager now? XD
Edit by Julian: Font color has been adjusted
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