Dandosch007 wrote on 06/26/2019 2:57 PM: Came across this today:
https://kanzlei-herfurtner.de/online-casino/
Seems a player got 13,500.00€ back....
The story also went through the Bild newspaper - Matthias had also sent me the article (he has a Bild Plus subscription).
The reports about chargebacks of gambling stakes via PayPal or credit cards are very outdated. There are several experts who warn against this, because German law is not as clear as the respective lawyers always present it.
We have always advised against chargebacks, as losses are simply part of gambling. Even if the feeling may not be nice
Fact is: The Rückbuchung of gambling stakes becomes ever more difficult! You almost always have to go to a lawyer in the meantime and more often than not it goes to court. At the end one must count there also on a defeat. You should ask yourself whether, against this background, the time and effort is really worth it.
Losses and wins have to be offset, and in addition, the lawyer usually wants at least 35% of the sum as fees, even if he does not charge for the initial consultation. So the chargeback is not as easy as it is always presented in the reports. Especially since you have to provide all data - i.e. deposits and withdrawals.
Chargebacks via PayPal should no longer be possible since 2019, since stakes through payments with PayPal may only be used for sports betting at most casinos - with the regulation PayPal has legally secured itself, since sports betting is at least tolerated
From Matthias' point of view, it is just a scam by lawyers to make good money in the process. If a gambler has lost 10.000€, it means income of 3.500€ for the lawyer. Judging by the fact that he only takes the player's data and writes a few letters, he speculates on an hourly wage of 350€
If it works, the player would get 6.500€. If he gambled away the money only because he couldn't control himself, there is a good chance that he will continue gambling. Unless he goes to professional therapy. A chargeback will not help to control his gambling behavior or to get rid of an addiction. For that, one should seek help elsewhere.
Christoph wrote on 26.06.2019 at 16:12
The story also went through the Bild newspaper - Matthias had also sent me the article (he has a Bild Plus subscription).
The reports about chargebacks of gambling bets via PayPal or credit cards are very outdated. There are several experts who warn against this, because German law is not as clear as the respective lawyers always present it.
We have always advised against chargebacks, as losses are simply part of gambling. Even if the feeling may not be nice
Fact is: The Rückbuchung of gambling stakes becomes ever more difficult! You almost always have to go to a lawyer in the meantime and more often than not it goes to court. At the end one must count there also on a defeat. You should ask yourself whether, against this background, the time and effort is really worth it.
Losses and wins have to be offset, and in addition, the lawyer usually wants at least 35% of the sum as fees, even if he does not charge for the initial consultation. So the chargeback is not as easy as it is always presented in the reports. Especially since you have to provide all data - i.e. deposits and withdrawals.
Chargebacks via PayPal should no longer be possible since 2019, since stakes through payments with PayPal may only be used for sports betting at most casinos - with the regulation PayPal has legally secured itself, since sports betting is at least tolerated
From Matthias' point of view, it is just a scam by lawyers to make good money in the process. If a gambler has lost 10.000€, it means income of 3.500€ for the lawyer. Judging by the fact that he only takes the player's data and writes a few letters, he speculates on an hourly wage of 350€
If it works out, the player would get 6,500€. If he gambled away the money only because he couldn't control himself, there is a good chance that he will continue gambling. Unless he goes to professional therapy. A chargeback will not help to control his gambling behavior or to get rid of an addiction. For that, one should seek help elsewhere.
To be fair, there are lawyers in this area who do not charge 35%, but a much lower rate (~10%)
Kleinkariert wrote on 06/26/2019 at 19:45
To be fair, I will note that there are also lawyers in the field who do not take 35% but a much lower rate (~10%).
That may be. I had referred my remarks rather to the web pages, which were posted here in the forum again and again. Partly you still have to calculate with taxes and fees of 7% (which I also forgot to mention).
That may be. I had rather related my comments to the websites that were posted here in the forum every now and then. Partly you still have to reckon with taxes and fees of 7% there (which I also forgot to mention).
The reports about chargebacks of gambling stakes via PayPal or credit cards are very outdated. There are several experts who warn against this, as German law is not as clear as the respective lawyers always portray it.
Your so-called experts who warn against a chargeback can all be put in a bag, hit it and you always hit the right...right - the lobby!
Outdated?
Nothing is outdated yet, or rather, money is being charged back as it always has been, and settlements are being made and litigation is being waged for all it's worth.
Just look a little beyond the edge of your plate -and
that you as an operator do not make or do not write about facts I understand of course also...I would not make in your position also
What personally p**ses me off is the fact that many know/knew that they were playing/playing illegally -switching from this platform to another one -to be a poor and ignorant little angel, according to the motto ...sorry for my crying, but I didn't know that online gambling is illegal...I want my money back:
My conclusion about such concerns ... all morons and no balls in the pants.
Above all, there is what the contributions still and nöcher (also here) also Google.
But people - online gambling is illegal - and who makes the effort similar to the bonus conditions times
to inform themselves in this regard, which will damn quickly determine the online gambling in Germany is illegal and is anything but a gray area
Secondly...of course claim the providers (which of course operate mainly from abroad) blablabla iech have license, etc..
well that may or may not be true? ... but the involvement in payments in connection with unauthorized gambling is also prohibited.
And for this reason alone (banks violate applicable gambling laws in Germany) the chargeback business is flourishing, lawyers are earning money from chargebackers (to this day) and the startup company WHDG, for example, has a raison d'être.
In summary: apart from the online gambling providers, "others" have now also discovered an insanely lucrative business area for themselves, or there are new competitors - and "all" only want your best.
Christoph wrote on 26/06/2019 at 16:12
One should ask oneself whether the time expenditure is really worth it against this background.
Losses and wins have to be offset, plus the lawyer usually wants at least 35% of the amount as fees, even if he does not charge for the initial consultation. So the chargeback is not as easy as it is always presented in the reports. Especially since you have to provide all data - i.e. deposits and withdrawals.
Chargebacks via PayPal should no longer be possible since 2019, since stakes through payments with PayPal may only be used for sports betting at most casinos - with the regulation PayPal has legally secured itself, since sports betting is at least tolerated
From Matthias' point of view, it is just a scam by lawyers to make good money in the process. If a gambler has lost 10.000€, it means income of 3.500€ for the lawyer. Judging by the fact that he only takes the player's data and writes a few letters, he speculates on an hourly wage of 350€
If it works, the player would get 6.500€. If he only gambled the money away because he couldn't control himself, there's a good chance he'll keep gambling. Unless he goes to professional therapy. A chargeback will not help to control his gambling behavior or to get rid of an addiction. For that, one should seek help elsewhere.
The charbeback RTP quota is anything but bad -the time required is also extremely low in relation to...... (amount x ?)
Let's say pi times thumb about 10 hours of work for 13500 euros (see Bildzeitung or forums that deal with it)
Makes 500....750 euro for a hr. work. So because of the Zeitlich effort is not worth it!
digga - post link and that's it? What is it all about?
Apparently a Maltastube in Schleswig-Holstein has offered games without having a SH license. And? What does that mean for the rest of Germany? Make an announcement or do you just want to spam for RTL? What is this?
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
https://kanzlei-herfurtner.de/online-casino/
Apparently a player has recovered 13.500,00€....
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
The time with the back posting should be over since the Higher Regional Court has decided against a player.
Christoph from GambleJoe has also published an article which might be interesting for you:
https://www.gamblejoe.com/news/urteil-gegen-rueckbuchungen-kreditkartenzahlungen-online-glu/
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Liked this post:
Crazy4U
The story also went through the Bild newspaper - Matthias had also sent me the article (he has a Bild Plus subscription).
The reports about chargebacks of gambling stakes via PayPal or credit cards are very outdated. There are several experts who warn against this, because German law is not as clear as the respective lawyers always present it.
Especially with credit card payments, the process of payment is relatively complicated. I had tried to describe it once in the article:
https://www.gamblejoe.com/news/rueckbuchung-kreditkarte-online-gluecksspieleinsaetze/
In the meantime, the Munich Regional Court has also ruled against a gambler who tried to charge back gambling stakes via credit card. Here the corresponding article:
https://www.gamblejoe.com/news/urteil-gegen-rueckbuchungen-kreditkartenzahlungen-online-glu/
We have always advised against chargebacks, as losses are simply part of gambling. Even if the feeling may not be nice
Fact is: The Rückbuchung of gambling stakes becomes ever more difficult! You almost always have to go to a lawyer in the meantime and more often than not it goes to court. At the end one must count there also on a defeat. You should ask yourself whether, against this background, the time and effort is really worth it.
Losses and wins have to be offset, and in addition, the lawyer usually wants at least 35% of the sum as fees, even if he does not charge for the initial consultation. So the chargeback is not as easy as it is always presented in the reports. Especially since you have to provide all data - i.e. deposits and withdrawals.
Chargebacks via PayPal should no longer be possible since 2019, since stakes through payments with PayPal may only be used for sports betting at most casinos - with the regulation PayPal has legally secured itself, since sports betting is at least tolerated
From Matthias' point of view, it is just a scam by lawyers to make good money in the process. If a gambler has lost 10.000€, it means income of 3.500€ for the lawyer. Judging by the fact that he only takes the player's data and writes a few letters, he speculates on an hourly wage of 350€
If it works, the player would get 6.500€. If he gambled away the money only because he couldn't control himself, there is a good chance that he will continue gambling. Unless he goes to professional therapy. A chargeback will not help to control his gambling behavior or to get rid of an addiction. For that, one should seek help elsewhere.
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
To be fair, there are lawyers in this area who do not charge 35%, but a much lower rate (~10%)
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
That may be. I had referred my remarks rather to the web pages, which were posted here in the forum again and again. Partly you still have to calculate with taxes and fees of 7% (which I also forgot to mention).
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
No problem Chrissi, we let mercy prevail.😅
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
Your so-called experts who warn against a chargeback can all be put in a bag, hit it and you always hit the right...right - the lobby!
Outdated?
Nothing is outdated yet, or rather, money is being charged back as it always has been, and settlements are being made and litigation is being waged for all it's worth.
Just look a little beyond the edge of your plate -and
that you as an operator do not make or do not write about facts I understand of course also...I would not make in your position also
What personally p**ses me off is the fact that many know/knew that they were playing/playing illegally -switching from this platform to another one -to be a poor and ignorant little angel, according to the motto ...sorry for my crying, but I didn't know that online gambling is illegal...I want my money back:
My conclusion about such concerns ... all morons and no balls in the pants.
Above all, there is what the contributions still and nöcher (also here) also Google.
But people - online gambling is illegal - and who makes the effort similar to the bonus conditions times
to inform themselves in this regard, which will damn quickly determine the online gambling in Germany is illegal and is anything but a gray area
Secondly...of course claim the providers (which of course operate mainly from abroad) blablabla iech have license, etc..
well that may or may not be true? ... but the involvement in payments in connection with unauthorized gambling is also prohibited.
And for this reason alone (banks violate applicable gambling laws in Germany) the chargeback business is flourishing, lawyers are earning money from chargebackers (to this day) and the startup company WHDG, for example, has a raison d'être.
In summary: apart from the online gambling providers, "others" have now also discovered an insanely lucrative business area for themselves, or there are new competitors - and "all" only want your best.
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
The charbeback RTP quota is anything but bad -the time required is also extremely low in relation to...... (amount x ?)
Let's say pi times thumb about 10 hours of work for 13500 euros (see Bildzeitung or forums that deal with it)
Makes 500....750 euro for a hr. work. So because of the Zeitlich effort is not worth it!
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Money back ?!
Liked this post:
Julian, 
sippi
digga - post link and that's it? What is it all about?
Apparently a Maltastube in Schleswig-Holstein has offered games without having a SH license. And? What does that mean for the rest of Germany? Make an announcement or do you just want to spam for RTL? What is this?
This post has been translated automatically