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Other topics related to... : Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation? (Page 2)

Topic created on 15th May. 2023 | Page: 2 of 3 | Answers: 38 | Views: 7,308
mowolum
Elite

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 09:15 am CEST#16
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Liked this post: Avatar von hustlehoff hustlehoff, Avatar von Max_Bet Max_Bet
From a case I know.

So you can't just take a litigation financier.
The losses are checked by law firms.
The losses have to be submitted on the basis of transaction lists. If the amount of losses is less than 5 K, there will be no further processing.
If the loss amount is higher, it will be presented to a process financier, whether he will step in.
Depending on the amount of the loss, court fees will be charged.
In the case it was with approx. 11 K approx. 900 €.
This is taken over by the process financier.
If the court ultimately decides in favor of the applicant, there is about 70%.
How long the payout takes is unknown to me in this case.
But the casino gets a deadline.
If the deadline is not met, it comes to a seizure.
But that can drag on for a long time.

This is how it looks in Germany.

This post has been translated automatically

gamble1
Legend

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 10:47 am CEST#17
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And what happens if Casino does not want to pay or can pay by insolvency no matter whether justified or feigned ?

Do not get me wrong but just casinos with 100 pages seem surely to be able to complete a company change for breakfast

This post has been translated automatically

mowolum
Elite

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 10:59 am CEST#18
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gamble1 wrote on 16.05.2023 at 10:47 am: And what happens if casino does not want to pay or can pay through insolvency no matter if justified or faked ?

Don't get me wrong but just casinos with 100 sites surely seem to be able to complete a change of company for breakfast

Does not want to pay does not go.

Have but already written,
Court decision
Seizure.
With insolvency it goes from the insolvency estate.
Of course, there are always casinos that disappear, but I lack any information and knowledge about how it ends.

But as Falke already writes, should be given here only definitely well-founded information and not just assumptions.
But some must give to everything their mustard, whether useful or not.

Is not meant personally and I would not step on anyone's feet.

This post has been translated automatically

gamble1
Legend

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 11:09 am CEST#19
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mowolum wrote on 16.05.2023 at 10:59 am:
Does not want to pay does not work.

Have already written,
Court decision
Garnishment.
With insolvency it goes from the insolvency estate.
Of course, there are always casinos that disappear, but I lack any information and knowledge about how it ends.

But as Falke already writes, should be given here only definitely well-founded information and not just assumptions.
But some must give to everything their mustard, whether useful or not.

Is not meant personally and I would not like to step on anyone's feet.

I'm just assumed this is a normal process that casinos like to use times was but at Twin so or have I misunderstood what?

This post has been translated automatically

upola
Legend

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 11:49 am CEST#20
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mowolum wrote on 05/16/2023 at 10:59 AM:


But as Falke already writes,only definitely sound info should be given here and not only assumptions.
But some must give their mustard to everything, whether useful or not.

Is not meant personally and I would not like to step on anyone's feet.

But I have not read much of that here.

I think here forum have already given many their mustard on topics where they do not have much idea of...I think you too.

This post has been translated automatically

Falke
Expert

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 12:40 pm CEST#21
5 Likes

upola wrote on 16.05.2023 at 08:44: 1.How long does such a procedure take in the Schmitt

2.us how long does it take until the casinos pay and do the casinos pay at all

3. us what happens if the casinos do not pay.


1. I will try to describe the process. First, you look for a lawyer who works with a process financier. You can also pay the lawyer yourself, but I advise against lawyers who do not work with process financiers, because they usually only operate as a side business and there may well be mistakes.

Then you sign a contract in which the percentages are clarified. Now you need proof of how much you have lost in total. In most cases, you write to the casino for this and they have to send the data according to DSGVO. But the lawyer himself can and will also do a data protection query and request the casinos on your behalf to hand over the list.

As soon as the exact loss is known, the lawyer sends a payment request to the casino and the casino has 30 days to pay the amount or to object to it.

In the event of an appeal, the case will end up in court. If the amount is less than €5,000, the case will be heard by the district court, where there is no obligation to hire a lawyer. If the amount is more than €5,000, the case will be heard by the regional court, where there is an obligation to hire a lawyer. It can take 3-9 months until the hearing takes place.

If you win the case (which is a formality in Austria), you will receive a title against the casino. The casino now has the possibility to appeal the decision and has 30 days to do so. It can take several months before the appeal is heard. You do not have to be present in person at the appeal proceedings. Only in the first trial you have to appear in person. If you win the appeal, you have a legally binding title that you can claim for 30 years.

2. There are casinos that pay immediately. Then you have the money usually within a short time (1-3 months from delivery). Some casinos also agree to a settlement and pay 70% - 90% of the claimed amount.

Some casinos pay after the first negotiation, some after the second and some not at all.

If a casino completely refuses and does not pay even after the appeal process, then all together it can take a good 2 - 3 years.

3. If the casino does not pay, then the lawyer initiates a garnishment. To do this, he can directly seize accounts that belong to the casino or work with a lawyer in Malta, who then collects the claim there.

Some casinos are so cross that they also object to the garnishment. My knowledge is that about 40% of the casinos offer a settlement or pay immediately. About 50% pay if they lost the negotiations. And about 10% object to everything and also defend themselves against the executions.

A very well-known casino for example (a Poker Provider with a star) does not pay and meanwhile there is already the fourth negotiation in Malta in this regard, because of the seizures. The casino argues that the seizures would disturb the "public order of Malta".
Which of course is completely gaga, but with this the whole thing is just delayed even further.


So you can not say exactly how long it will take, because it depends very much on the casino. It can take 1 month, but also 3 years. But they all have to pay at some point. I know one provider who paid after 2 weeks.

Because someone here said that they then simply go bankrupt. It's not that simple. To go bankrupt, you have to prove the inability to pay and that will probably be difficult, with most. There would then quickly be insolvency fraud, etc. in the room. So no, the casinos do not go bankrupt just like that.

Hope I could answer your questions. If anything is unclear, then ask with pleasure.






This post has been translated automatically

Max_Bet
Expert

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 01:14 pm CEST#22
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I have an indirect question about the topic. I hope that I will be forgiven if I just pop it in here.

It is always said that the casinos are only intermediaries between slot manufacturer and customer. Why are the slot manufacturers out of everything? Don't they have to make sure that the casino is allowed to offer their games in the respective country? Or is the responsibility completely with the casino?
There are some Curacao booths in which Merkur, for example, is not playable for Germans without vpn.
Does that come from Merkur or from the casino?
Or does that come from Merkur but the implementation lies with the casino?

This post has been translated automatically

upola
Legend

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 01:26 pm CEST#23
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Liked this post: Avatar von Falke Falke, Avatar von Muratc111 Muratc111

Falcon wrote on 05/16/2023 at 12:40 PM:


1. Let me try to describe the process. First, you look for a lawyer who works with a litigation funder. You can also pay the lawyer yourself, but I advise against lawyers who do not work with process financiers, because they usually only do this as a side business and there may well be mistakes.

Then you sign a contract in which the percentages are clarified. Now you need proof of how much you have lost in total. In most cases, you write to the casino for this and they have to send the data according to DSGVO. But the lawyer himself can and will also do a data protection query and request the casinos on your behalf to hand over the list.

As soon as the exact loss is known, the lawyer sends a payment request to the casino and the casino has 30 days to pay the amount or to object to it.

In the event of an appeal, the case will end up in court. If the amount is less than €5,000, the case will be heard by the district court, where there is no obligation to hire a lawyer. If the amount is more than €5,000, the case will be heard by the regional court, where there is an obligation to hire a lawyer. It can take 3-9 months until the hearing takes place.

If you win the case (which is a formality in Austria), you will receive a title against the casino. The casino now has the possibility to appeal the decision and has 30 days to do so. It can take several months before the appeal is heard. You do not have to be present in person at the appeal proceedings. Only in the first trial you have to appear in person. If you win the appeal, you have a legally binding title that you can claim for 30 years.

2. There are casinos that pay immediately. Then you have the money usually within a short time (1-3 months from delivery). Some casinos also agree to a settlement and pay 70% - 90% of the claimed amount.

Some casinos pay after the first negotiation, some after the second and some not at all.

If a casino completely refuses and does not pay even after the appeal process, then all together it can take a good 2 - 3 years.

3. If the casino does not pay, then the lawyer initiates a garnishment. To do this, he can directly seize accounts that belong to the casino or work with a lawyer in Malta, who then collects the claim there.

Some casinos are so cross that they also object to the garnishment. My knowledge is that about 40% of the casinos offer a settlement or pay immediately. About 50% pay if they lost the negotiations. And about 10% object to everything and also defend themselves against the executions.

A very well-known casino for example (a Poker Provider with a star) does not pay and meanwhile there is already the fourth negotiation in Malta in this regard, because of the seizures. The casino argues that the seizures would disturb the "public order of Malta".
Which of course is completely gaga, but with this the whole thing is just delayed even further.


So you can not say exactly how long it will take, because it depends very much on the casino. It can take 1 month, but also 3 years. But they all have to pay at some point. I know one provider who paid after 2 weeks.

Because someone here said that they then simply go bankrupt. It's not that simple. To go bankrupt, you have to prove the inability to pay and that will probably be difficult, with most. There would then quickly be insolvency fraud, etc. in the room. So no, the casinos do not go bankrupt just like that.

Hope I could answer your questions. If anything is unclear, then ask with pleasure.







Thank you, you have explained well.

This post has been translated automatically

Falke
Expert

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 01:42 pm CEST#24
1 Like

Liked this post: Avatar von Lionking Lionking

mowolum wrote on 05/16/2023 at 09:15: From a case I know.

So a litigation funder is not something you can just take.
There are losses audited by law firms.
You have to submit them based on transaction lists.Below 5 K loss amount there will be no further processing.
If the loss amount is higher, it will be presented to a process financier, whether he will step in.
Depending on the amount of the loss, court fees will be charged.
In the case it was with approx. 11 K approx. 900 €.
This is taken over by the process financier.
If the court ultimately decides in favor of the applicant, there is about 70%.
How long the payout takes is unknown to me in this case.
But the casino gets a deadline.
If the deadline is not met, it comes to a seizure.
But that can drag on for a long time.

This is how it looks in Germany.

So that's not quite how it works in the normal case.


Normally, you go directly to a lawyer who already works with litigation financiers.

There are some lawyers/PF who only accept cases above a certain loss amount. However, you can find many law firms that have a minimum of 1,000 €.

For the lawyer it does not make a big difference. The lawyer gets NOTHING from the recoveries, but works according to the lawyer rate/hourly rate. So the lawyer earns his lawyer's fee.

You always sign the contract with the litigation financier before anything is done and also the lawyer can only act if you give him a power of attorney.
What can happen, of course, is that a case is rejected because the requirements are not met. In Austria, for example, you can not reclaim sports bets, because they are and were legal.

In addition, you must have played in your own country. If you live in Austria, for example, but were on vacation in Spain and gambled away all the money there, then you can not reclaim, because the law is different again. You must always have played in your own country, so that the legal situation in your own country can be applied.

There are law firms that accept cases only from 5,000 € loss, but is rather the exception. As I said, the rule is about 1,000 €.

This post has been translated automatically

Falke
Expert

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 01:58 pm CEST#25
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Liked this post: Avatar von Lionking Lionking, Avatar von Max_Bet Max_Bet
Max_Bet wrote on 05/16/2023 at 1:14 pm: I have an indirect question about the topic. I hope I'll be forgiven if I just pop these in here.

There is always talk about the casinos only being intermediaries between the slot manufacturer and the customer. Why are the slot manufacturers out of everything? Don't they have to make sure that the casino is allowed to offer their games in the respective country? Or is the responsibility completely with the casino?
There are some Curacao booths in which Merkur, for example, is not playable for Germans without vpn.
Does that come from Merkur or from the casino?
Or does that come from Merkur but the implementation lies with the casino?

Probably no one can tell you exactly, because there are no cases on this and so far no one has sued a game provider. It would also be very difficult to determine the exact amount of damages and you would need the total gaming revenue at the respective provider.


Logically, I would estimate that some manufacturers withdraw from certain markets to avoid problems with the respective country. They are not so much afraid of being sued by private individuals, but rather that the state could initiate proceedings because they are not authorized to do so.

The block for a country will therefore come directly from the manufacturers. Otherwise, it will hardly work if almost all casinos simultaneously exclude a certain Provider for a country.

However, the responsibility probably lies mainly with the casino. So, I can't imagine on what basis one could sue manufacturers. After all, they only rent their games to the casinos. The casinos themselves are responsible for ensuring that they comply with the law.

In Germany, one has also tried to sue payment providers, which has now been rejected in court for the time being. Whereas I would find it more logical that a payment provider is not allowed to participate in illegal gambling. However, the judges are probably too afraid to pronounce an appropriate verdict, because the consequences would be serious. If everyone could sue their bank, e-wallets, Paysafecard, etc. and get all their deposits back, chaos would quickly reign.

This post has been translated automatically

mowolum
Elite

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

16th May. 2023, at 03:11 pm CEST#26
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Falcon wrote on 05/16/2023 at 1:58 PM:
Probably nobody can tell you exactly, because there are no cases and nobody has sued a game Provider yet. It would also be very difficult to determine the exact amount of damages and you would need the total game sales at the respective provider





Each casino is required to create and send a complete transaction list to the respective casino account holder.


There is a right to information according to Art. 15 DSGVO

This post has been translated automatically

Rizkk
Rookie

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

12th Sep. 2023, at 08:08 pm CEST#27
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mowolum wrote on 16.05.2023 at 15:11:

Every casino is required to create a complete transaction list and send it to the respective casino account holder.


There is a right of access according to Art. 15 DSGVO

And if, for example, the casino has gone bankrupt and the new owner does not want to give out or can allegedly?

This post has been translated automatically

Maze168
Rookie

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

13th Sep. 2023, at 08:37 am CEST#28
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So one of the most interesting threads....

Whether one should really try this?

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M****t

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

13th Sep. 2023, at 11:22 am CEST#29
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Falcon wrote on 15.05.2023 at 21:21:

Or what specifically do you want to know? Feel free to ask me any question about it.

Can you or anyone else tell me if it is information (with sources) for the situation in Switzerland?

This post has been translated automatically

Begbie
Elite

Recoveries from casinos - what is the legal situation?

13th Sep. 2023, at 11:29 am CEST#30
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MGA_Agent wrote on 09/13/2023 at 11:22 AM:

Can you or someone else tell me if it is information (with sources) for the situation in Switzerland?

Hi Paysafemaster. How's it going?

This post has been translated automatically

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