Sindragosa wrote on 09/21/2020 at 2:16 pm
Thank you so much for your words
The lawyer we have is specialized in :
German and Swiss Law, especially Corporate Law , national and international Contract Law , general Civil Law , Labor Law, Construction
I also don't know if a lawyer from another state can/should help.
Also, I don't want to change lawyers that would be too inconvenient. The newly hired attorney would have to learn the ropes again and that takes time again.
Besides, we have no money at all because of this matter.
If the win is legal then this lawyer must be able to handle the case. I really hope so.
Why is it not possible to take action against this prosecutor?
If one is allowed to keep his win in the end, then one would have to sue for damages or not ?
One would say no I got my win I don't do anything anymore, another would say okay you f**ked me now I f**k you.
I don't know much about legal stuff.
I also have no idea how far the banks have their fingers in the pie. I am told that they are working for us and that they should get everything done as quickly as possible.
But I don't believe it myself, they only tell you what you want to hear, they are all hypocrites to me.
"I am very sorry for you, I and the prosecutor's office have tried everything to let you keep your win, but unfortunately there is no way and the win has to be confiscated".
Had to listen to my mother from the police.
All hypocrites.
Nobody begrudges you anything.
There are no friends in this life except yourself.
Keep your fingers crossed my dear Your lawyer will take care of it. Report here best
Online Casinos outside Schleswig-Holstein are illegal under German law. However, according to European opinion, German authorities cannot currently prohibit an EU Provider from conducting gambling even with German players.
The reason for this is the so-called freedom of movement of services. So if an online casino has the EU license from Malta, then they are legal in Germany, because EU law is above the law of the Federal Republic of Germany.
And the police wanted me to know that German law would be above EU law.
Let's see what the lawyer makes of it. One can only wait. It is still annoying, no question.
Why Online Casinos in Germany cannot invoke freedom of services
Organizing and brokering public Games of chance on the Internet is prohibited in Germany (cf. § 4 para. 4 GlüStV). Nevertheless, there is an enormous number of online casino offers on the Internet that can be accessed from the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany and are aimed specifically at German consumers (website in German, domain extension ".de", etc.).
The providers claim to be licensed or legal. Thereby, these online casinos usually have a license to operate an online casino from the member states Malta or Gibraltar. Due to the freedom of services applicable in the European un ion (Art. 56 et seq. TFEU), the operators believe that they can also offer their online casino in Germany or that the gambling law applicable in Germany violates the freedom of services in the EU. Federal Administrative Court sees no infringement of the freedom to provide services
The Federal Administrative Court has clearly rejected this legal opinion, taking into account the relevant case law of the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice.
The guiding principles of the Federal Administrative Court's decision are as follows: "1. The ban on organizing and brokering Poker and casino games on the Internet continues to be compatible with un ion and constitutional law . 2. it is compatible with un ion and constitutional law to hold the offerer of on-line sport bets in the luck play-legal Untersagungsverfahren the absence of the necessary permission against." (BVerwG Urt. v. 26.10.2017 - 8 C 18.16, emphasis added by Kanzlei)
The decision of the Federal Administrative Court refers to a large number of court decisions, which the online casino providers repeatedly want to put forward in their favor. However, the Federal Administrative Court clarified in the ruling that the protection of important general interests takes precedence over the freedom to provide services under Article 56 TFEU. "b) The internet ban of Section 4 (4) and (5) GlüStV 2012 can be held against the plaintiff. It is consistent with constitutional and un ion law. As the Senate (BVerwG, judgment of June 1, 2011 - 8 C 5.10 - BVerwGE 140, 1), the Federal Constitutional Court (BVerfG, Chamber decision of October 14, 2008 - 1 BvR 928/08 - NVwZ 2008, 1338) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, judgments of September 8, 2009 - C-42/07 [ECLI:EU:C:2009:519], Liga Portuguesa -, of 8. As already decided by the European Court of Justice in its judgments of 8 September 2010 - C-316/07 [ECLI:EU:C:2010:504], Markus Stoß - and - C-46/08 [ECLI:EU:C:2010:505], Carmen Media - and of 30 June 2011 - C-212/08 [ECLI:EU:C:2011:437], Zeturf) on the then Section 4 (4) GlüStV 2008, a general Internet ban on public gambling is compatible with the fundamental right of freedom of occupation and the general principle of equality, as well as with un ion law. The fact that the self-distribution and brokerage of lotteries as well as the organization and brokerage of sports or horse betting (cf. Section 27 (2) GlüStV 2012) can now be permitted on the Internet pursuant to Section 4 (5) of the amended State Treaty on Gaming does not lead to a different legal assessment." (BVerwG, judgment of 26.10.2017 - 8 C 14.16, emphasis added by law firm)
The Federal Administrative Court has thus made it unmistakably clear that online casino providers are prohibited from offering their online casinos on the national territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. This does not change even if the casino providers have a license for another EU member state and can legally offer their online casino there.
Confusing stuff is everywhere. No matter where you look, who you ask or what you read, no one can give you clear answers.
Nowhere can you get accurate information.
As I have already described above, one finds something that speaks for it and on the other side something that speaks against it.
How much faith can you still give to what is on the Internet?
Why do some people get back their state-frozen win when it is supposedly really forbidden?
From the lawyer I have received so far also no exact data since the file inspection is still missing.
I become slowly insane. All this can not be true .
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u****n
Forum posts:1.196Member has been banned
legal problems with larger wins
23rd Sep. 2020, at 06:47 pm CEST#106
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there is no uniform regulation, but the latest status from 2017 is that Online Casinos are indeed illegal. However, the ban has not been enforced so far, i.e. the OCs could continue as before, as they still refer to the EU's freedom of services. Theoretically, however, the state has the right to shut everything down at any time according to the ruling of the Federal Administrative Court from 2017. However, since there has been no enforcement to date, a player unfortunately lulls himself into a false sense of security. It seems to me as if the enforcement and the confiscation of the win is probably only carried out for players where it is also worthwhile for the state, the others are waved through. This approach is the very last thing I hope that your lawyer will be able to present all the arguments to convince the prosecutor's office.
unicorn wrote on 09/23/2020 at 18:47: It seems to me that enforcement and confiscation of the win is probably only carried out on players where it is also worthwhile for the state, the others are waved through. This approach is the very worst I hope that your lawyer can bring all the arguments to convince the prosecutor.
Yes, that is exactly what I think!
The very last is not an expression for it.
In my eyes, this is high-grade criminality on the part of the state!
One must be allowed/able to defend oneself somehow against it
I have found in addition that here still:
According to the plaintiff's statement, the defendant organized unauthorized online gambling on the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. According to the defendant, on the other hand, the German gambling law (State Gambling Treaty) violates the freedom of services of the EU and consequently also higher-ranking European law. Furthermore, it does not require a separate German license, as a license for the national territory of Gibraltar would suffice.
This legal opinion has now been clearly rejected by the Koblenz Regional Court. The court was of the opinion that the defendant's offer constituted unauthorized gambling within the meaning of German gambling law. In doing so, it followed the case law of the Federal Administrative Court from October 2017 (see BVerwG Urt. v. 26.10.2017 - Az.: 8 c 14.16 - u. - 8 C 18.16 -).
The Federal Administrative Court, the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice had already ruled that the prohibition on organizing or brokering public Games of chance on the Internet (Section 4 (4) GlüStV), which is regulated in the State Treaty on Games of Chance, is compatible with the fundamental right of freedom of occupation, the general principle of equality and un ion law.
I marked this part bold and underlined it on purpose because I want to know what it means. I can't do anything with this turgid German.
A question on the side, do you get a notification when someone comments/posts something here? Because I don't get anything.
I refresh the page every time to see if someone has posted something.
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u****n
Forum posts:1.196Member has been banned
legal problems with larger wins
23rd Sep. 2020, at 07:07 pm CEST#108
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Sindragosa wrote on 09/23/2020 at 6:57 pm
The Federal Administrative Court, the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice had already ruled that the ban on organizing or brokering public Games of chance on the Internet (Section 4 (4) GlüStV), which is regulated in the State Treaty on Gaming, is compatible with the fundamental right of freedom of occupation, the general principle of equality and un ion law.
In other words, this means: The Federal Administrative Court, the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice had already ruled that the ban on organizing or brokering public games of chance on the Internet (Section 4 (4) GlüStV), which is regulated in the State Treaty on Gaming, does not violate the fundamental right of freedom of occupation, the general principle of equality and European un ion law (European law) . The ban is therefore permissible!
I do not get a notification, I also only see an orange "Update"
unicorn wrote on 23.09.2020 at 19:07
In other words, this means: The Federal Administrative Court, the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice had already ruled that the ban on organizing or brokering public Games of chance on the Internet (Section 4 (4) GlüStV), which is regulated in the State Treaty on Gaming, does not violate the fundamental right of freedom of occupation, the general principle of equality and un ion law (European law) . The ban is therefore permissible!
Okay and that means then what ?
That it is forbidden to broker Online Casinos from EU countries to Germany or that online casinos may be brokered to Germany ?
Sorry I'm a little hard of the concept.
This post has been translated automatically
u****n
Forum posts:1.196Member has been banned
legal problems with larger wins
23rd Sep. 2020, at 07:52 pm CEST#110
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Sindragosa wrote on 09-23-2020 at 19:31
Okay and that means then what ?
That it is forbidden from EU countries to broker Online Casinos to Germany or that online casinos to Germany may be brokered ?
Sorry I'm a bit slow on the uptake.
no thing
This means that the online casinos from other EU countries (Malta/Gibraltar) are not allowed to provide their offer in Germany, even if they have a license there (Malta/Gibraltar). The only exception is Schleswig-Holstein. Online casinos that have a SH license are allowed to offer their services there . In the rest of Germany, all online casinos are currently illegal.
legal problems with larger wins
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Damn right!
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legal problems with larger wins
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Keep your fingers crossed my dear Your lawyer will take care of it. Report here best
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
The reason for this is the so-called freedom of movement of services. So if an online casino has the EU license from Malta, then they are legal in Germany, because EU law is above the law of the Federal Republic of Germany.
And the police wanted me to know that German law would be above EU law.
Let's see what the lawyer makes of it. One can only wait. It is still annoying, no question.
Source:
-- link to competition has been removed --
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
Why Online Casinos in Germany cannot invoke freedom of services
Organizing and brokering public Games of chance on the Internet is prohibited in Germany (cf. § 4 para. 4 GlüStV). Nevertheless, there is an enormous number of online casino offers on the Internet that can be accessed from the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany and are aimed specifically at German consumers (website in German, domain extension ".de", etc.).
The providers claim to be licensed or legal. Thereby, these online casinos usually have a license to operate an online casino from the member states Malta or Gibraltar. Due to the freedom of services applicable in the European un ion (Art. 56 et seq. TFEU), the operators believe that they can also offer their online casino in Germany or that the gambling law applicable in Germany violates the freedom of services in the EU.
Federal Administrative Court sees no infringement of the freedom to provide services
The Federal Administrative Court has clearly rejected this legal opinion, taking into account the relevant case law of the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice.
The guiding principles of the Federal Administrative Court's decision are as follows:
"1. The ban on organizing and brokering Poker and casino games on the Internet continues to be compatible with un ion and constitutional law .
2. it is compatible with un ion and constitutional law to hold the offerer of on-line sport bets in the luck play-legal Untersagungsverfahren the absence of the necessary permission against." (BVerwG Urt. v. 26.10.2017 - 8 C 18.16, emphasis added by Kanzlei)
The decision of the Federal Administrative Court refers to a large number of court decisions, which the online casino providers repeatedly want to put forward in their favor. However, the Federal Administrative Court clarified in the ruling that the protection of important general interests takes precedence over the freedom to provide services under Article 56 TFEU.
"b) The internet ban of Section 4 (4) and (5) GlüStV 2012 can be held against the plaintiff. It is consistent with constitutional and un ion law. As the Senate (BVerwG, judgment of June 1, 2011 - 8 C 5.10 - BVerwGE 140, 1), the Federal Constitutional Court (BVerfG, Chamber decision of October 14, 2008 - 1 BvR 928/08 - NVwZ 2008, 1338) and the European Court of Justice (ECJ, judgments of September 8, 2009 - C-42/07 [ECLI:EU:C:2009:519], Liga Portuguesa -, of 8. As already decided by the European Court of Justice in its judgments of 8 September 2010 - C-316/07 [ECLI:EU:C:2010:504], Markus Stoß - and - C-46/08 [ECLI:EU:C:2010:505], Carmen Media - and of 30 June 2011 - C-212/08 [ECLI:EU:C:2011:437], Zeturf) on the then Section 4 (4) GlüStV 2008, a general Internet ban on public gambling is compatible with the fundamental right of freedom of occupation and the general principle of equality, as well as with un ion law. The fact that the self-distribution and brokerage of lotteries as well as the organization and brokerage of sports or horse betting (cf. Section 27 (2) GlüStV 2012) can now be permitted on the Internet pursuant to Section 4 (5) of the amended State Treaty on Gaming does not lead to a different legal assessment." (BVerwG, judgment of 26.10.2017 - 8 C 14.16, emphasis added by law firm)
The Federal Administrative Court has thus made it unmistakably clear that online casino providers are prohibited from offering their online casinos on the national territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. This does not change even if the casino providers have a license for another EU member state and can legally offer their online casino there.
Source
https://www.anwalt-leverkusen.de/aktuelles/detail/warum-sich-online-casinos-in-deutschland-nicht-auf-dienstleistungsfreiheit-berufen-koennen.html
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
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Confusing stuff is everywhere. No matter where you look, who you ask or what you read, no one can give you clear answers.
Nowhere can you get accurate information.
As I have already described above, one finds something that speaks for it and on the other side something that speaks against it.
How much faith can you still give to what is on the Internet?
Why do some people get back their state-frozen win when it is supposedly really forbidden?
From the lawyer I have received so far also no exact data since the file inspection is still missing.
I become slowly insane. All this can not be true .
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
Yes, that is exactly what I think!
The very last is not an expression for it.
In my eyes, this is high-grade criminality on the part of the state!
One must be allowed/able to defend oneself somehow against it
I have found in addition that here still:
According to the plaintiff's statement, the defendant organized unauthorized online gambling on the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany. According to the defendant, on the other hand, the German gambling law (State Gambling Treaty) violates the freedom of services of the EU and consequently also higher-ranking European law. Furthermore, it does not require a separate German license, as a license for the national territory of Gibraltar would suffice.
This legal opinion has now been clearly rejected by the Koblenz Regional Court. The court was of the opinion that the defendant's offer constituted unauthorized gambling within the meaning of German gambling law. In doing so, it followed the case law of the Federal Administrative Court from October 2017 (see BVerwG Urt. v. 26.10.2017 - Az.: 8 c 14.16 - u. - 8 C 18.16 -).
The Federal Administrative Court, the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice had already ruled that the prohibition on organizing or brokering public Games of chance on the Internet (Section 4 (4) GlüStV), which is regulated in the State Treaty on Games of Chance, is compatible with the fundamental right of freedom of occupation, the general principle of equality and un ion law.
I marked this part bold and underlined it on purpose because I want to know what it means. I can't do anything with this turgid German.
A question on the side, do you get a notification when someone comments/posts something here? Because I don't get anything.
I refresh the page every time to see if someone has posted something.
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
In other words, this means: The Federal Administrative Court, the Federal Constitutional Court and the European Court of Justice had already ruled that the ban on organizing or brokering public games of chance on the Internet (Section 4 (4) GlüStV), which is regulated in the State Treaty on Gaming, does not violate the fundamental right of freedom of occupation, the general principle of equality and European un ion law (European law) . The ban is therefore permissible!
I do not get a notification, I also only see an orange "Update"
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
Okay and that means then what ?
That it is forbidden to broker Online Casinos from EU countries to Germany or that online casinos may be brokered to Germany ?
Sorry I'm a little hard of the concept.
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
no thing
This means that the online casinos from other EU countries (Malta/Gibraltar) are not allowed to provide their offer in Germany, even if they have a license there (Malta/Gibraltar). The only exception is Schleswig-Holstein. Online casinos that have a SH license are allowed to offer their services there . In the rest of Germany, all online casinos are currently illegal.
This post has been translated automatically