To the punishability of the gambling
The on-line Casino offers boom in Internet . For the participant in such on-line plays the question arises whether the participation in it after § § 285 , 286 StGB is punishable. If it is illegal gambling , follows after the criminal prosecution the confiscation of the game winnings.
The offense of participation in unauthorized gambling under § 285 StGB i.V.m. xml-ph-1545@d
Without question, any public organizing or setting up of a game of chance under German law requires a state license . Further details are set out in the so-called State Treaty on Games of Chance (GlüStV). Games of chance operated on the Internet, as well as private sports betting providers, also require a corresponding state concession under German law. If the concessions are not present, it acts in the sense of the §§ 284, 285 StGB around illegal organizing of a gambling and/or around an illegal gambling. This expressly includes any gambling within the meaning of the State Gambling Treaty on the Internet.
At present, the prevailing opinion is that the State Treaty on Gaming in its current version needs to be reformed with regard to sports betting , i.e. also with regard to online casinos. It is of particular importance here that under Community law there is no mutual obligation to recognize player licenses , i.e., for example, a player license issued by the competent authority in Malta does not have to be recognizable under German law.
Online casino operators based abroad
Many online casino operators based abroad, often also in other EU countries, give the impression that they have the relevant German permits. This is particularly important with regard to the examination of the subjective side (intent) with regard to the fulfillment of the criminal offense of § 285 StGB. Accordingly, it is not apparent to the user from the outset that this is an illegal gambling operation.
In addition, it is still disputed in case law and specialist literature whether operating or participating in an online gaming operation can be illegal at all within the meaning of Section 284 and Section 285 of the Criminal Code. In any case, this is the case if the relevant licenses or permits are available at the registered office of the Internet platform or at the registered office of the operator of the respective online casino.
The criminal consequences
If there is participation in illegal public gambling within the meaning of Section 285 of the Criminal Code, the person must also reckon with the confiscation of assets of his gambling winnings pursuant to Sections 73 et seq. StGB count. From this win from the participation in the illegal gambling the play employment cannot be considered fortmögensminderd. This would mean that the entire gambling winnings would be confiscated.
On the punishability of gambling
The on-line Casino offers boom in Internet . For the participant in such on-line plays the question arises whether the participation in it after § § 285 , 286 StGB is punishable. If it is illegal gambling , follows after the criminal prosecution the confiscation of the game winnings.
The offense of participation in unauthorized gambling pursuant to § 285 StGB i.V.m. xml-ph-1624@d
Without question, any public organizing or setting up of a game of chance under German law requires a state license . Further details are set out in the so-called State Treaty on Games of Chance (GlüStV). Games of chance operated on the Internet, as well as private sports betting providers, also require a corresponding state concession under German law. If the concessions are not present, it acts in the sense of the §§ 284, 285 StGB around illegal organizing of a gambling and/or around an illegal gambling. This expressly includes any gambling within the meaning of the State Gambling Treaty on the Internet.
The current prevailing opinion is that the State Treaty on Gaming in its current version needs to be reformed both with regard to sports betting , and with regard to online casinos. It is of particular importance here that under Community law there is no mutual obligation to recognize player licenses , i.e., for example, a player license issued by the competent authority in Malta does not have to be recognizable under German law.
Online casino operators based abroad
Many online casino operators based abroad, often also in other EU countries, give the impression that they have the relevant German permits. This is especially important with regard to the examination of the subjective side (intent) with regard to the fulfillment of the criminal offense of § 285 StGB. Accordingly, it is not apparent to the user from the outset that this is an illegal gambling operation.
In addition, it is still disputed in case law and specialist literature whether operating or participating in an online gaming operation can be illegal at all within the meaning of Section 284 and Section 285 of the Criminal Code. In any case, this is the case if the relevant licenses or permits are available at the registered office of the Internet platform or at the registered office of the operator of the respective online casino.
The criminal consequences
If there is participation in illegal public gambling within the meaning of Section 285 of the Criminal Code, the person must also reckon with the confiscation of assets of his gambling winnings pursuant to Sections 73 et seq. StGB count. From this win from the participation in the illegal gambling the play employment cannot be considered fortmögensminderd. This would mean that the entire gambling winnings would be confiscated.
That is cold coffee and was not correct even then.
The treaty was unlawful under EU law. Even renowned lawyers have come to this conclusion. That's why the state kept its feet still for years and there were never any lasting convictions, etc.
For a few weeks now, Online Casinos have been on the road to legalization anyway: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/ndr/gluecksspiel-111.html
Until then, administrative measures etc. should be suspended. Contact a good law firm for gambling law. Kanzlei Redeker.de is probably the best known.... Dr. Martin Bahr, Dr. Sarafi, Martin Reeckmann etc. can also take.
Please do not take a forest and meadow lawyer, who normally defends chewing gum thieves from the penny market.... There is a lack of longtime knowledge about gambling law......
Don't let them take the butter off your bread. What the DA's office is trying to do is disgusting!!! Freezing money from gamblers because the state wanted to secure its gambling monopoly in an illegal way for years. Any mediocre lawyer would take the prosecutor's office apart in this regard, especially in light of current developments!
This post has been translated automatically
u****n
Forum posts:1.196Member has been banned
legal problems with larger wins
21st Sep. 2020, at 12:53 pm CEST#93
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The case is not a big deal. Every halfway good lawyer clarifies the facts with a single letter to the public prosecutor's office. As some people here have already pointed out, the measures taken by the state or the state of BaWü violate higher-level EU law and are therefore illegal. If the case ends up in court, you don't need to worry about the outcome. However, I think that the case can be settled out of court and the public prosecutor's office will release your money even without a lawsuit.
This post has been translated automatically
u****n
Forum posts:1.196Member has been banned
legal problems with larger wins
21st Sep. 2020, at 12:58 pm CEST#94
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Liked this post: T****z
Jokerboy wrote on 09/21/2020 at 01:50 AM
Can you roughly imagine to what extent this case would arouse public interest?
Such a crime, still involving such a large sum, would have been publicized! Many media incl. Gamblejoe would have reported on such a case, which did not happen. Since the money was already confiscated, as you think, some time has also passed. As a rule, the money is always a little blocked at the bank first
If something is accused, it is money laundering and even about it would have read!
what are you always babbling about? an open investigation is never published.
Jenges wrote on 09/21/2020 at 12:36 PM
That is cold coffee and was not correct even then.
The state treaty was EU illegal. Even renowned lawyers have come to this conclusion. That's why the state kept its feet still for years and there were never any lasting convictions, etc.
For a few weeks now, Online Casinos have been on the road to legalization anyway: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/ndr/gluecksspiel-111.html
Until then, administrative measures etc. should be suspended. Turn to a good law firm for gambling law. Kanzlei Redeker.de is probably the best known.... Dr. Martin Bahr, Dr. Sarafi, Martin Reeckmann etc. can also take.
Please do not take a forest and meadows lawyer, who normally defends chewing gum thieves from the penny market.... There is a lack of longtime knowledge about gambling law......
Don't let them take the butter off your bread. What the DA's office is trying to do is disgusting!!! Freezing money from gamblers because the state wanted to secure its gambling monopoly in an illegal way for years. Any mediocre lawyer would take the prosecutor's office apart in this regard, especially in light of current developments!
Thank you very much for your words
The lawyer we have specializes in :
German and Swiss law, especially corporate law , national and international contract law , general civil law , labor law, construction
I also don't know if a lawyer from another state can/should help.
Also, I don't want to change lawyers that would be too inconvenient. The newly hired attorney would then have to learn the ropes again and that takes time again.
Besides, we have no money at all because of this matter.
If the win is legal then this lawyer must be able to handle the case. I really hope so.
Why is it not possible to take action against this prosecutor?
If one is allowed to keep his win in the end, then one would have to sue for damages or not ?
One would say no I got my win I don't do anything anymore, another would say okay you f**ked me now I f**k you.
I don't know much about legal stuff.
I also have no idea how far the banks have their fingers in the pie. I am told that they are working for us and that they should get everything done as quickly as possible.
But I don't believe it myself, they only tell you what you want to hear, they are all hypocrites to me.
"I am very sorry for you, I and the prosecutor's office have tried everything to let you keep your win, but unfortunately there is no way and the win has to be confiscated".
Had to listen to my mother from the police.
All hypocrites.
Nobody begrudges you anything.
There are no friends in this life except yourself.
unicorn wrote on 09/21/2020 at 12:53 pm: The case is not a big deal. Every halfway good lawyer clarifies the facts with a single letter to the public prosecutor. As some here have already communicated, the measures taken by the state or the state of BaWü violate higher-level EU law and are therefore illegal. If the case ends up in court, you don't need to worry about the outcome. However, I think that the case can be settled out of court and the public prosecutor's office will release your money even without a lawsuit.
That sounds good so far, but I'm still worried.
It just takes too long
My mother says it could be delayed until it is legalized in 2021. Of course, it has to do with the lawyer
But I think why? At the time the win took place, it was illegal, right?
If one sits now because of dangerous bodily injury in the jail, and short time on it a law comes out that bodily injury is legal under Vorraussetzungen, one would be released then?
I know now is not exactly a super comparison
Besides, if it is legal why should one hesitate until 2021?
I have to wait and see what follows the days or weeks
This post has been translated automatically
Anonym
Former Member
legal problems with larger wins
21st Sep. 2020, at 05:27 pm CEST#97
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unicorn wrote on 09/21/2020 at 12:58 pm
what are you always babbling about? an open investigation is never made public.
@Sindragosa: just ignore his comments
After all, I wrote afterwards that I assumed that the prosecutor's office had already confiscated the money you post!
In that case it should have become public
This post has been translated automatically
u****n
Forum posts:1.196Member has been banned
legal problems with larger wins
21st Sep. 2020, at 05:31 pm CEST#98
1 Like
Liked this post: T****z
Jokerboy wrote on 21.09.2020 at 17:27
After all, I wrote afterwards that I assumed that the prosecutor's office had already confiscated the money you post!
In that case it should have become public
no, even if it is confiscated, why should it become public? It becomes public under 2 conditions and that is if it is a public figure (example Metzelder case) or there is a public interest in it. But a public interest only exists in the case of serious crimes, such as murder, rape, child abuse or serious fraud. But certainly not because a 66 year old mother played in an online casino
-- Part of the message was removed due to provocation --
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Anonym
Former Member
legal problems with larger wins
21st Sep. 2020, at 05:38 pm CEST#99
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unicorn wrote on 09/21/2020 at 5:31 pm
no you post, even if it is confiscated, why should it become public? It becomes public under 2 conditions and that is if it is a public figure (example Metzelder case) or there is a public interest in it. But a public interest only exists in the case of serious crimes, such as murder, rape, child abuse or serious fraud. But surely not because a 66 year old mother played in an online casino, you plum
I can tell you don't get it!!!
Everything our state does is published! And if only the neighbor complains that it is too loud. In such a case, you would have read about it if they pulled it in!
I have already written that I have been too far in the matter. Normally, our state can not just take away 500000 EUR from someone and that sneak past the public
-- Part of the message has been removed due to provocation --
This post has been translated automatically
u****n
Forum posts:1.196Member has been banned
legal problems with larger wins
21st Sep. 2020, at 05:44 pm CEST#100
1 Like
Liked this post: T****z
Jokerboy wrote on 09/21/2020 at 5:38 pm
I can tell you don't get it!!!
Everything our state does gets published! And if only the neighbor complains that it is too noisy. In such a case, you would have read about it if they pulled it in!
I have already written that I have been too far in the matter. Normally, our state can not just take away 500000 EUR from someone and that sneak past the public. You blockhead!
Aaaaalter, I give up to discuss with you. You have no matter in which topic simply zero plan and give the users here only hirnrissige information or tips. But fortunately most already know that and ignore you deliberately
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
I know this will be a lot of text but this is the most informative I could find
Source
https://www.google.com/amp/s/rechtsanwaelte-wirtschaftsstrafrecht-berlin.de/online-casino-illegales-gluecksspiel/amp/
To the punishability of the gambling
The on-line Casino offers boom in Internet . For the participant in such on-line plays the question arises whether the participation in it after § § 285 , 286 StGB is punishable. If it is illegal gambling , follows after the criminal prosecution the confiscation of the game winnings.
The offense of participation in unauthorized gambling under § 285 StGB i.V.m. xml-ph-1545@d
Without question, any public organizing or setting up of a game of chance under German law requires a state license . Further details are set out in the so-called State Treaty on Games of Chance (GlüStV). Games of chance operated on the Internet, as well as private sports betting providers, also require a corresponding state concession under German law. If the concessions are not present, it acts in the sense of the §§ 284, 285 StGB around illegal organizing of a gambling and/or around an illegal gambling. This expressly includes any gambling within the meaning of the State Gambling Treaty on the Internet.
At present, the prevailing opinion is that the State Treaty on Gaming in its current version needs to be reformed with regard to sports betting , i.e. also with regard to online casinos. It is of particular importance here that under Community law there is no mutual obligation to recognize player licenses , i.e., for example, a player license issued by the competent authority in Malta does not have to be recognizable under German law.
Online casino operators based abroad
Many online casino operators based abroad, often also in other EU countries, give the impression that they have the relevant German permits. This is particularly important with regard to the examination of the subjective side (intent) with regard to the fulfillment of the criminal offense of § 285 StGB. Accordingly, it is not apparent to the user from the outset that this is an illegal gambling operation.
In addition, it is still disputed in case law and specialist literature whether operating or participating in an online gaming operation can be illegal at all within the meaning of Section 284 and Section 285 of the Criminal Code. In any case, this is the case if the relevant licenses or permits are available at the registered office of the Internet platform or at the registered office of the operator of the respective online casino.
The criminal consequences
If there is participation in illegal public gambling within the meaning of Section 285 of the Criminal Code, the person must also reckon with the confiscation of assets of his gambling winnings pursuant to Sections 73 et seq. StGB count. From this win from the participation in the illegal gambling the play employment cannot be considered fortmögensminderd. This would mean that the entire gambling winnings would be confiscated.
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
That is cold coffee and was not correct even then.
The treaty was unlawful under EU law. Even renowned lawyers have come to this conclusion. That's why the state kept its feet still for years and there were never any lasting convictions, etc.
For a few weeks now, Online Casinos have been on the road to legalization anyway: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/ndr/gluecksspiel-111.html
Until then, administrative measures etc. should be suspended. Contact a good law firm for gambling law. Kanzlei Redeker.de is probably the best known.... Dr. Martin Bahr, Dr. Sarafi, Martin Reeckmann etc. can also take.
Please do not take a forest and meadow lawyer, who normally defends chewing gum thieves from the penny market.... There is a lack of longtime knowledge about gambling law......
Don't let them take the butter off your bread. What the DA's office is trying to do is disgusting!!! Freezing money from gamblers because the state wanted to secure its gambling monopoly in an illegal way for years. Any mediocre lawyer would take the prosecutor's office apart in this regard, especially in light of current developments!
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Liked this post: T****z
what are you always babbling about? an open investigation is never published.
@Sindragosa: just ignore his comments
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
Thank you very much for your words
The lawyer we have specializes in :
German and Swiss law, especially corporate law , national and international contract law , general civil law , labor law, construction
I also don't know if a lawyer from another state can/should help.
Also, I don't want to change lawyers that would be too inconvenient. The newly hired attorney would then have to learn the ropes again and that takes time again.
Besides, we have no money at all because of this matter.
If the win is legal then this lawyer must be able to handle the case. I really hope so.
Why is it not possible to take action against this prosecutor?
If one is allowed to keep his win in the end, then one would have to sue for damages or not ?
One would say no I got my win I don't do anything anymore, another would say okay you f**ked me now I f**k you.
I don't know much about legal stuff.
I also have no idea how far the banks have their fingers in the pie. I am told that they are working for us and that they should get everything done as quickly as possible.
But I don't believe it myself, they only tell you what you want to hear, they are all hypocrites to me.
"I am very sorry for you, I and the prosecutor's office have tried everything to let you keep your win, but unfortunately there is no way and the win has to be confiscated".
Had to listen to my mother from the police.
All hypocrites.
Nobody begrudges you anything.
There are no friends in this life except yourself.
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
That sounds good so far, but I'm still worried.
It just takes too long
My mother says it could be delayed until it is legalized in 2021. Of course, it has to do with the lawyer
But I think why? At the time the win took place, it was illegal, right?
If one sits now because of dangerous bodily injury in the jail, and short time on it a law comes out that bodily injury is legal under Vorraussetzungen, one would be released then?
I know now is not exactly a super comparison
Besides, if it is legal why should one hesitate until 2021?
I have to wait and see what follows the days or weeks
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
After all, I wrote afterwards that I assumed that the prosecutor's office had already confiscated the money you post!
In that case it should have become public
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Liked this post: T****z
no, even if it is confiscated, why should it become public? It becomes public under 2 conditions and that is if it is a public figure (example Metzelder case) or there is a public interest in it. But a public interest only exists in the case of serious crimes, such as murder, rape, child abuse or serious fraud. But certainly not because a 66 year old mother played in an online casino
-- Part of the message was removed due to provocation --
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Nobody has liked this post so far
I can tell you don't get it!!!
Everything our state does is published! And if only the neighbor complains that it is too loud. In such a case, you would have read about it if they pulled it in!
I have already written that I have been too far in the matter. Normally, our state can not just take away 500000 EUR from someone and that sneak past the public
-- Part of the message has been removed due to provocation --
This post has been translated automatically
legal problems with larger wins
Liked this post: T****z
Aaaaalter, I give up to discuss with you. You have no matter in which topic simply zero plan and give the users here only hirnrissige information or tips. But fortunately most already know that and ignore you deliberately
This post has been translated automatically