Caro wrote on 07/22/2021 at 08:13 AM
Good morning Paulsaul, check out the first page in this thread. There are some casinos listed that don't have the new rules yet.
Good morning
I read since the beginning of this post every single page
however, to date is nothing but conjecture and quite smart you do not get out of it there is also no info regarding consequences steadily it is about withdrawals to bypass the bank payout and, "strong payment providers" and the bad rtp but the real issue is whether you are now liable to prosecution if you play at casinos that do not bend the German gambling treaty or there are already players who have suffered any legal consequences and whether the casinos continue to invoke the service relationship and thus everything is legal
Liquid wrote on 22.07.2021 at 12:11 pm: I mean but think a little bit, if it was so awesome illegal, then that would have been noticed now but slowly times sure and also become public.
Shall namely in distant galaxies also German players give the probably even times what win and also pay out in the last time.🤫
Completely correct. Strictly speaking, it was never really legal.
Only what I am concerned about is the non-compliance with data protection. What happens if a casino makes a deal and gives my data to law enforcement in return?
Or the authorities otherwise get hold of this data and can thus prove the illegal gambling as well as the tax evasion?
We will probably only know about this when the time comes...
PrimaBallerina wrote on 21.07.2021 at 15:49: I wanted to Deposit today via Ecopayz at Betvoyager , no longer goes for Germans.
On 14.7.2021 last deposit that went through there.
Was it only at the casino you mentioned not or has ecoPayz generally changed something?
paulsaul wrote on 22.07.2021 at 09:21
So there is no legal statement about whether the casinos are illegal or not. If there would be, all discussions in this regard would be invalid and unnecessary.
It has been pointed out by experts to the policy that through this tax many players will join the black market and therefore this tax is seen very critically. This statement also expresses that it is still open to everyone on which casino he wants to access. Sweden has for years a gambling law and here at GJ was once an article written that there even in the country 70% do not even know what a casino license is. You should play where you feel comfortable, just as you eat and drink only what one also really tastes
supermode wrote on 22/07/2021 at 14:55
Did it only not work at the casino you mentioned or did ecoPayz change something in general?I
Tried it at Europacasino.com, there I can still Deposit with Ecopayz.
Strange.
In Betvoyager this message appears:
Unfortunately, you are not allowed to buy from this website as the services of this merchant are restricted in your country of residence.
Please try another merchant for your purchase transaction.
Betvoyager is a NON-EU COUNTRY CASINO ( Curacao )
Europacasino.com is an EU COUNTRY CASINO (Malta)
Maybe that's the reason.
Neteller behaves the same way with these casinos by the way!
I don't understand why every single spin has to be taxed.
If payouts were taxed then I would be able to understand it in part, but per spin?
How will the tax office or the state can understand who where and how much spins.
In what connection are the whole Malta casinos to the German state?.Which data are shared by both sides?
Does the casino itself also pay another tax or is it all borne by the player?
So you pay taxes once per spin for money that you lose in the last few weeks anyway?
I do not understand how this works. Does the German state control every Malta casino and gets every player and his spins with name and address?
And:
Why are StarGames not deducted cents per spin, they are also in Malta.
Marqes wrote on 07/22/2021 at 23:11: I don't understand why every single spin has to be taxed.
If payouts were taxed then I would be able to understand it to some extent, but per spin?
How will the tax office or the state can understand who is where and how much spins.
In what connection are the whole Malta casinos to the German state?.Which data are shared by both sides?
Does the casino itself also pay another tax or is it all borne by the player?
So you pay taxes once per spin for money that you lose in the last few weeks anyway?
I do not understand how this works. Does the German state control every Malta casino and gets every player and his spins with name and address?
And:
Why are StarGames not deducted cents per spin, they are also in Malta
I have the assumption it is about money laundering. Thanks to the OASIS database, the city now knows exactly who gambles away how much money and what the casino takes in. And thanks to the per spin tax he can track everything exactly.
I read since the beginning this contribution every single page
however, to date is nothing but assumptions and quite clever one is not from it there is also no info regarding consequences steadily it is about withdrawals to bypass the bank payout and, "strong payment providers" and the bad rtp but the real issue is whether one makes himself now punishable if one plays at casinos the German gambling treaty does not bend or there are already players who have suffered any legal consequences and whether the casinos continue to invoke the service relationship and thus everything is legal
Moin moin,
this is an interesting topic with which I have also already dealt in more detail. As already mentioned, playing in Online Casinos has always been illegal under the German State Treaty on Gambling, which came into force on 01.01.2008. Since almost all OCs did not have an official license from the German state (exceptions in Schleswig-Holstein). However, it is highly questionable whether this gambling treaty does not violate existing EU laws - the so-called EU freedom of services. Most OCs have an official license from Malta or Curacao. There are unfortunately few jurisdictions of §§284 and 285 StGB ( Unlaubte Veranstaltung eines Glücksspiels, Beteiligung am unerlaubten Glücksspiel) regarding OCs in Germany. The only case known that someone actually experienced consequences was a man from Bavaria who had won a large amount of money playing Blackjack at OC. (Link: https://openjur.de/u/753117.html )
To make a long story short - I think that the legal situation has been too vague and uncertain for the German state to really enforce criminal proceedings in a legally secure way
With the gambling treaty to 01.07.2021 everything was now exactly regulated and the legal situation is now clear. Likewise a new authority is created around the appropriate laws now also actually to enforce. After a public report of the coming gambling authority this will be able to take up your activity however only to 01.07.2022, since the first year is used for "market observation". There is not yet a single German license. Strictly speaking, every OC is illegal at the moment and we are in a transition phase. In this transitional phase, there will probably be no prosecutions or the like, as no licenses have been issued yet. We have to wait and see what comes, at the moment all the framework conditions are still being created to monitor such a huge market at all. Whether this will actually work until next year remains to be seen
But if it is so far, I think that each OC without German license is illegal and it can come already rather to a prosecution after §285 StGB ( imprisonment up to six months or with fine up to one hundred eighty daily rates) and a tax notice of the tax office for the subsequent taxation of possible wins.
This is just my personal assessment of the situation.
LG
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Liked this post:
Byrrrd
Good morning
I read since the beginning of this post every single page
however, to date is nothing but conjecture and quite smart you do not get out of it there is also no info regarding consequences steadily it is about withdrawals to bypass the bank payout and, "strong payment providers" and the bad rtp but the real issue is whether you are now liable to prosecution if you play at casinos that do not bend the German gambling treaty or there are already players who have suffered any legal consequences and whether the casinos continue to invoke the service relationship and thus everything is legal
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Liked this post:
Katharina2, 
NoSkill_NoKill, 
Saphira, 
Tonkabohne
Shall namely in distant galaxies also German players give the probably even times what win and also pay out in the last time.🤫
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Nobody has liked this post so far
Completely correct. Strictly speaking, it was never really legal.
Only what I am concerned about is the non-compliance with data protection. What happens if a casino makes a deal and gives my data to law enforcement in return?
Or the authorities otherwise get hold of this data and can thus prove the illegal gambling as well as the tax evasion?
We will probably only know about this when the time comes...
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Nobody has liked this post so far
Was it only at the casino you mentioned not or has ecoPayz generally changed something?
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Liked this post:
Katharina2, 
NoSkill_NoKill
It has been pointed out by experts to the policy that through this tax many players will join the black market and therefore this tax is seen very critically. This statement also expresses that it is still open to everyone on which casino he wants to access. Sweden has for years a gambling law and here at GJ was once an article written that there even in the country 70% do not even know what a casino license is. You should play where you feel comfortable, just as you eat and drink only what one also really tastes
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Nobody has liked this post so far
Tried it at Europacasino.com, there I can still Deposit with Ecopayz.
Strange.
In Betvoyager this message appears:
Betvoyager is a NON-EU COUNTRY CASINO ( Curacao )
Europacasino.com is an EU COUNTRY CASINO (Malta)
Maybe that's the reason.
Neteller behaves the same way with these casinos by the way!
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Nobody has liked this post so far
If payouts were taxed then I would be able to understand it in part, but per spin?
How will the tax office or the state can understand who where and how much spins.
In what connection are the whole Malta casinos to the German state?.Which data are shared by both sides?
Does the casino itself also pay another tax or is it all borne by the player?
So you pay taxes once per spin for money that you lose in the last few weeks anyway?
I do not understand how this works. Does the German state control every Malta casino and gets every player and his spins with name and address?
And:
Why are StarGames not deducted cents per spin, they are also in Malta.
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Liked this post:
NoSkill_NoKill
I have the assumption it is about money laundering. Thanks to the OASIS database, the city now knows exactly who gambles away how much money and what the casino takes in. And thanks to the per spin tax he can track everything exactly.
Of course, all this is pure speculation
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Nobody has liked this post so far
Moin moin,
this is an interesting topic with which I have also already dealt in more detail. As already mentioned, playing in Online Casinos has always been illegal under the German State Treaty on Gambling, which came into force on 01.01.2008. Since almost all OCs did not have an official license from the German state (exceptions in Schleswig-Holstein). However, it is highly questionable whether this gambling treaty does not violate existing EU laws - the so-called EU freedom of services. Most OCs have an official license from Malta or Curacao. There are unfortunately few jurisdictions of §§284 and 285 StGB ( Unlaubte Veranstaltung eines Glücksspiels, Beteiligung am unerlaubten Glücksspiel) regarding OCs in Germany. The only case known that someone actually experienced consequences was a man from Bavaria who had won a large amount of money playing Blackjack at OC. (Link: https://openjur.de/u/753117.html )
To make a long story short - I think that the legal situation has been too vague and uncertain for the German state to really enforce criminal proceedings in a legally secure way
With the gambling treaty to 01.07.2021 everything was now exactly regulated and the legal situation is now clear. Likewise a new authority is created around the appropriate laws now also actually to enforce. After a public report of the coming gambling authority this will be able to take up your activity however only to 01.07.2022, since the first year is used for "market observation". There is not yet a single German license. Strictly speaking, every OC is illegal at the moment and we are in a transition phase. In this transitional phase, there will probably be no prosecutions or the like, as no licenses have been issued yet. We have to wait and see what comes, at the moment all the framework conditions are still being created to monitor such a huge market at all. Whether this will actually work until next year remains to be seen
But if it is so far, I think that each OC without German license is illegal and it can come already rather to a prosecution after §285 StGB ( imprisonment up to six months or with fine up to one hundred eighty daily rates) and a tax notice of the tax office for the subsequent taxation of possible wins.
This is just my personal assessment of the situation.
LG
This post has been translated automatically
Consequences after July 1, 2021
Liked this post:
NoSkill_NoKill
As long as no licenses are there.
This post has been translated automatically