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Off topic & small talk: Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

Topic created on 21st May. 2018 | Page: 1 of 2 | Answers: 16 | Views: 3,442
Knochen
Elite

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 01:34 pm CEST#1
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Since I think that the sports betting on the World Cup 2018 thread should be about sports betting and fear that this topic is brought up too often, I create a separate thread for the discussion around the two German national players in anticipation.

So if you want to be outraged about the fact that two German national players were instrumentalized for political purposes, that certain players do not sing the national anthem or other right-wing ideas under the guise of soccer, this is the right place.

Since I officially initiated the topic, I'll also briefly start with my own opinion. I think the action of the two was ill-considered. I trust both players that they could not estimate the consequences, but I do not see a major problem with the matter. After all, soccer is not politics. The action to meet Frank Walter Steinmeier I found good. In principle, it doesn't matter who had the idea. It shows that Özil and Gündogan are not completely hostile to Germany. I also think that many who already thought racist exploit this situation in the most stupid way to publicly display their racism. If Thomas Müller had taken a selfie with Kim Jong Un in a bathtub, the outrage among some would probably have been much weaker.

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Anonym

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 01:53 pm CEST#2
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The two Heinis can run up with pleasure for Turkey!
But no so far the love for their chief is not enough, ergo there is not so much coal.

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Knochen
Elite

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 01:57 pm CEST#3
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As a soccer fan, I'm personally quite happy to have a playmaker like Özil and a strong six like Gündogan in the team. Both of them have outstanding athletic quality, and ultimately that's what it's all about. I find it very understandable that an athlete who has a choice would rather play for Germany than for Turkey. Özil also gave up his Turkish citizenship a long time ago; with him, there was never really any question. Both of them are German citizens and are among the best soccer players in the country, so I'm glad that they are competing for Germany in a sporting competition.

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Anonym

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 02:05 pm CEST#4
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I, on the other hand, consider both of them to be replaceable from a sporting point of view. And even if they are not, I'd rather have two players who open their mouths during the national anthem and don't pay homage to a dictator who tramples on our democratic values and who has also repeatedly called us Germans N**is. These two have therefore absolutely nothing more lost in our national team. But unfortunately, they remain, because they have the same advisor as Löw.

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Julian
Elite

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 02:11 pm CEST#5
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I myself find the whole media spectacle about it exaggerated, it was definitely not well thought out by Özil and Gündogan, especially in today's political situation between Germany and Turkey. But one should not make a mountain out of a molehill.

However, I have to contradict you on one thing bone, soccer basically has a lot to do with politics, or at least has a big influence on it.
Ultimately, all the soccer players are public figures and have a great deal of influence on children and young people. Therefore, they also got one on the lid from Joachim Löw and the DFB board, they can be glad that they were still taken into the squad.

Although I take them in the matter somewhat in the protection, I must confess that I do not think much of them on the field. Özil and Gündogan are good players in the Premier League but as soon as it becomes international, they make a lot of mistakes on the pitch.

Özil was definitely an important player for the DFB until 2010, but in the meantime there are much better alternatives in the squad in my opinion.

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Knochen
Elite

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 02:12 pm CEST#6
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I do not think that they have "paid homage" to him. I personally have many Turkish friends and even with them the discussion about Erdogan is very difficult, many see him as the best thing that ever happened to Turkey. This comes from the parents, from Turkish media, that is, the whole Turkish culture. At the end of the day, you simply have to say that integration has gone very badly in some places. One would have to do much more constructive integration work than to demonize the two now and to stir up hatred against Turkey. The fact is that we have a great many citizens of Turkish origin in our country. Integration has never worked with a club and a little sensitivity and education is important. Educating people that such meetings are not welcome, what Erdogan is doing wrong, how the situation in the country is, etc. is all right and important. I think kicking him out of the team and cursing him is the wrong way to go.

Basically every player can be replaced, Germany is very broadly positioned. Nevertheless, an Özil in top form is the best 10 we have had in a long time and a Gündogan next to Kroos on the 6 also the best choice. Of course, there could also be a Khedria, a Rudy or even a Weigl, but I still consider Gündogan to be the best footballer in the sporting sense.

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Anonym

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 02:35 pm CEST#7
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Bone wrote on 05/21/2018 at 14:12: I don't think they "paid homage" to him. I personally have many Turkish friends and even with them it is very difficult to discuss Erdogan, many see him as the best thing that ever happened to Turkey. This comes from the parents, from Turkish media, that is, the whole Turkish culture. At the end of the day, you simply have to say that integration has gone very badly in some places. One would have to do much more constructive integration work than to demonize the two now and to stir up hatred against Turkey. The fact is that we have a great many citizens of Turkish origin in our country. Integration has never worked with a club and a little sensitivity and education is important. Educating people that such meetings are not welcome, what Erdogan is doing wrong, how the situation in the country is, etc. is all right and important. I think kicking him out of the team and cursing him is the wrong way to go.

Basically every player is replaceable, Germany is very broadly positioned. Nevertheless, an Özil in top form is the best 10 we have had in a long time and a Gündogan next to Kroos on the 6 also the best choice. Of course, there could also be a Khedria, a Rudy or even a Weigl, but I still consider Gündogan to be the best footballer in the sporting sense.

You think they have not paid homage to ? So if a jersey is handed over "for my president" then that is probably quite clear that he / they worship this person.

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Knochen
Elite

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 02:40 pm CEST#8
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I wouldn't even be surprised if Erdogan had brought the jersey himself in the course of the election campaign. When Thomas Müller posts "Tonight I'm going to make myself some delicious BARILLA spaghetti with BARILLA tomato sauce", he's not paying homage to Barilla either. That the two Erdogan are not completely averse may be, but is also understandable. I think it was as I said not thought through and clarification is more important here than punishment. I don't think it's a bad thing that the two of them don't completely forget and deny their roots. Optimally, of course, they should speak out against Erdogan and positively influence young Turks in Germany, but we still have the problem of the Basic Law here somehow. Because even if Özil and Gündogan were pathological Verteter and supporters of Erdogan, then

Article 3
(1) All people are equal before the law.
(2) Men and women have equal rights. The State shall promote the effective implementation of equal rights for women and men and shall work towards the elimination of existing disadvantages.
(3) No one shall be discriminated against or given preference on the grounds of sex, descent, race, language, nationality and origin, creed, religious or political beliefs. No one may be disadvantaged because of his or her disability.

So a debate whether the two should be kicked out of the national team is wrong anyway. Personally, I would also like to see a national team without AFD voters, but we also have political freedom. Whereby I believe that Özil and Gündogan in particular are simply uneducated in this regard.

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Anonym

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 04:41 pm CEST#9
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Bones

What are you smoking ? I would also like to take this

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gagapapamama
Expert

Özil & Gündogan - Trikotgate

21st May. 2018, at 04:51 pm CEST#10
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Zaroo8 wrote on 05/21/2018 at 4:41 pm: Bones

What are you smoking ? I would love to take this sometime

Me too and still take my big yellow pills with it.

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