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Online Casinos in general: Where is the best place to get your money back? (Page 2)

Topic created on 04th Apr. 2024 | Page: 2 of 4 | Answers: 54 | Views: 4,245
Hidaruma
Top Member
reaggie wrote on 06.04.2024 at 12:43: The casino providers knew just as well that they did not have a valid license in Germany and offered their services anyway.

Even with the knowledge that anyone who had lost their money there might sue.
So your argument applies just as much to the providers as it does to the users.
And if you were in Debt to a Provider, they would go the same way. Debt collection and then legal action.
And the arguments don't apply to them?
I don't think many lawsuits will go through, if anyone ever gets any money back. But there's so much nonsense being sued for and politicians are making so many stupid laws, so why not just go with the flow?

Besides, these are all just our opinions and why are there always people who insult and become aggressive in a ridiculous, childish or not "in control of their senses" way? There are laws in Germany, as well as freedom of opinion. Why do you always have to attack people instead of accepting that there will always be people who don't agree with you? They are always stupid.

Just stay objective and not always personal. If someone wants to sue, they should give it a try. If someone doesn't want to sue, nobody is forcing them to. That's ok too.

Nobody has become abusive here.


And what does it matter that the offer is illegal in Germany? None. The players know what they are getting into and accept the illegality in order to have better gaming fun and then complain with the argument that it is illegal and their name is "Hase".

None of these illegal casinos would waste a single cent on a lawsuit in a German court. The chances of success are close to zero.

And yes, we have freedom of opinion here. But then you also have to accept opinions that take a somewhat rougher approach to such "I'll get my money back because...".

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reaggie
Rookie
The players know what they are getting into and accept the illegality in order to get better gaming fun and then complain, arguing that it is illegal and their name is "Hare".

That's not true. It was a gray area. Neither legal nor illegal
But none of the providers had communicated it that way. And they still don't. Only the legal ones advertise that they have a license in Germany.
And 10 years ago, nobody knew that Bwin, Interwetten and other big names were operating in the gray area. Or did you know that?
I'm not talking about the 1000 providers whose websites all have the same structure and you can see that they are not legal. Not even today.
I'm talking about the providers who also advertised on TV, on jerseys and everywhere. You don't assume that it's not legal.
Or have you ever seen advertising on TV from illegal companies? I can't remember a money launderer offering his services on television, for example.
Besides, if you want to sue them, they also want you to assure them that you won't participate in any more illegal providers since you realized that. And there are certainly enough people who don't comply.
And if someone is addicted, the money (if they get a refund) will be put back into casinos anyway.
Rude is ok, but the fact that it always gets personal just annoys me.

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fros7byte
Rookie
reaggie wrote on 06.04.2024 at 13:36: The players know what they are getting into and accept the illegality in order to get better gaming fun and then complain with the argument that it is illegal and their name is "Hase".

That's not true. It was a gray area. Neither legal nor illegal
But none of the providers had communicated it that way. And they still don't. Only the legal ones advertise that they have a license in Germany.
And 10 years ago, nobody knew that Bwin, Interwetten and other big names were operating in the gray area. Or did you know that?
I'm not talking about the 1000 providers whose websites all have the same structure and you can see that they are not legal. Not even today.
I'm talking about the providers who also advertised on TV, on jerseys and everywhere. You don't assume that it's not legal.
Or have you ever seen advertising on TV from illegal companies? I can't remember a money launderer offering his services on television, for example.
Besides, if you want to sue them, they also want you to assure them that you won't participate in any more illegal providers since you realized that. And there are certainly enough people who don't comply.
And if someone is addicted, the money (if they get a refund) will be put back into casinos anyway.
Rude is ok, but the fact that it always gets personal just annoys me.

nothing gray area. 100% illegal and all operated without a German license. and the BGH has just ruled the same for sports betting in an indicative ruling.

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reaggie
Rookie

fros7byte wrote on 06.04.2024 at 14:00:
nothing gray area. 100% illegal and all operated without a german license. and this has also just been decided by the BGH in sports betting.


Yes, now. I'm talking about the time before that. The ruling wasn't there 10 years ago and it was a gray area. The law has only been in place for around 3 years.
If you've lost money since then, you don't even need to consider a lawsuit, because no lawyer will deal with it.
Except on illegal sites, where it's your own fault if you play there. Or on legal sites and then they had purchased a license and you don't get any money back.

I'm only talking about the years before the state came up with the idea of implementing the law in Germany.
If you've been losing money on unlicensed sites since then, I think you shouldn't sue because you knew it wasn't legal. This is now relatively easy to see if you want to.

I'm referring to the question from TrockenerZocker who opened this. And he's talking about the last 10 years. So I don't think he has lost the money in the last 3 years.

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R3hab
Expert
If you do this in the arcade
Is it called a robbery 😂😂

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reaggie
Rookie

R3hab wrote on 06.04.2024 at 14:22: If you do that in the arcade
Is that called robbery 😂😂

Ever tried it?

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Max_Bet
Expert


Hidaruma wrote on 06/04/2024 12:11:

The tax argument is a bit off. When I realized that N1 Casino, for example, "taxes" every spin, I immediately stopped playing there. It's your own fault if you allow yourself to be maltreated like that.


You're right about the rest, but you'll certainly encounter a lot of resistance in this forum

It wasn't so clear at the beginning, as some Malta casinos levied taxes on German players and paid some of them, apparently! The Platin thing was a bit of an oddity because nobody really knew if they were paying their taxes or what was going on.


Platin is also the only club that moved from Malta to Curacao, so there must have been a reason for that. Platin's new management is probably actually run by fraudsters... That's why I've given this place a wide berth for the last two years.


I don't really care whether I get support or not. It's my opinion, and I stand by it.
We have developed into a country where the fire department is called when a sparrow falls out of its nest... That says it all...

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R3hab
Expert

reaggie wrote on 06.04.2024 at 14:27:

Ever tried it?

Nope if gone then gone amigo


Was once at the machine violently pressing buttons all of a sudden someone screams then the conditions wtf I keep pressing
Ivan comes police 👮 asks me what was going on and if I saw anything
I say no nothing what happened? 😂😂

Once someone even tried something with a pocket knife and was successful^^
The conditions told me later
Funy Times

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reaggie
Rookie

R3hab wrote on 06.04.2024 at 14:36:

Nope if gone then gone amigo


Was once at the machine violently pressing buttons all of a sudden someone screams then the conditions wtf I keep pressing
Ivan comes police 👮 asks me what was going on and if I saw anything
I say no nothing what happened? 😂😂

Once someone even tried something with a pocket knife and was successful^^
The conditions told me later
Funy Times

Well but whether you raid the arcade, or your lawyer and best buddy, and then give you back your share that you looked the other way doesn't make that much difference.

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dazzle_tea
Amateur

Max_Bet wrote on 06.04.2024 at 14:35:
I don't really care whether I get encouragement or not. It's my opinion, and I stand by it.
We have developed into a country where the fire department is called when a sparrow has fallen out of its nest... That says it all...

opinions or grains of sand... doesn't really matter.

the TE asked a question and exactly 0 people gave him a meaningful answer. really no one, including me.
instead, one side revels in its steely determination to be consistently morally correct, which apparently has to be peddled every time - why is that? - and the other repeatedly tries to point out various aspects of the casino ethics discussion that it considers to be neglected and overlooks the fact that you can't win against people with opinions with opinions.

unfortunately, in this particular topic, you can't win with arguments either.
i'll leave ads-udo out of it for now.

which is boring and not at all useful.

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dazzle_tea
Amateur

Hidaruma wrote on 06.04.2024 at 12:11:

The tax argument is a bit off. When I realized that N1 Casino, for example, "taxes" every spin, I immediately stopped playing there. It's your own fault if you allow yourself to be maltreated like that.


You're right about the rest, but you'll certainly encounter a lot of resistance in this forum

man, how many more times are you going to bring your eternally same old egg-swinger to the people? yes, you're doing a great job, you're capable of learning and you're able to take responsibility for your actions. you read the terms and conditions correctly and understand them, you're excellently informed and smart enough not to be ripped off, you're also strong-willed and not easily influenced. that makes you stand out from the crowd.
as a gift.


maybe there'll be something else to read from you now. that would be something.

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Max_Bet
Expert
dazzle_tea wrote on 06.04.2024 at 15:05

opinions or grains of sand... doesn't really matter.

the TE asked a question and exactly 0 people gave him a meaningful answer. really no one, including me.
instead, one side delights in its steely determination to be consistently morally correct, which apparently has to be peddled every time - why is that? - and the other repeatedly tries to point out various aspects of the casino ethics discussion that it considers to be neglected and overlooks the fact that you can't win against people with opinions with opinions.

unfortunately, in this particular topic, you can't win with arguments either.
i'll leave ads-udo out of it for now.

which is boring and not at all useful.

So this is probably the most pointless "contribution" to the topic, if you're already referring to the initial post...
But well, the main thing is that the goal is right ...

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Hidaruma
Top Member

dazzle_tea wrote on 06.04.2024 at 15:16:

man, how many times do you want to bring your eternally same egg show to the people? yes, you do everything great, you are capable of learning and able to take responsibility for your actions. you read the terms and conditions correctly and understand them, are excellently informed and smart enough not to be ripped off, also strong-willed and not easily influenced. so you stand out from the crowd.
as a gift.


maybe there'll be something else to read from you now. that would be something.

No. Why should I? The same chant is repeated over and over again here. I will continue to spread my superiority as long as I can.

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R3hab
Expert

Hidaruma wrote on 06/04/2024 19:02:

No. Why would you? The same Sing Sang is held here over and over again. I will continue to spread my superiority as long as I can.

The same right for everyone 😜

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reaggie
Rookie

dazzle_tea wrote on 06.04.2024 at 15:05

opinions or grains of sand... doesn't really matter.

the TE asked a question and exactly 0 people gave him a meaningful answer. really no one, including me.
instead, one side delights in its steely determination to be consistently morally correct, which apparently has to be peddled every time - why is that? - and the other repeatedly tries to point out various aspects of the casino ethics discussion that it considers to be neglected and overlooks the fact that you can't win against people with opinions with opinions.

unfortunately, in this particular topic, you can't win with arguments either.
i'll leave ads-udo out of it for now.

which is boring and not at all useful.

Well, you can get an answer if you send a request to the lawyers.

Then they send you a contract with the terms and conditions. You then have to read it and decide whether you are prepared to accept it. You can't sign the contract with 2-3 different lawyers at the same time, because that's what the contract says. So you don't know where you have the best chance. And also things like the fact that if you hire a law firm, you are obliged to automatically forward any subsequent offers from casinos to them. You assign your rights vis-à-vis the Provider to the law firm and therefore have the obligation to forward everything that has to do with the case to them.

It also contains the conditions, which differ in minor details. But I don't think that many people will go to the trouble of reading through more than 2 contracts in detail and spend weeks comparing pages and pages of contracts because of 2 or 3% more.

As already mentioned, you can also tackle this with your own legal protection, but the people you find on Google already have contacts with lawyers who have their offices near the providers. And the case is then passed on to them. They also advertise this. Only they know whether this is really the case.

That's been my experience so far.

I initially wanted to instruct the first one that came along, but I didn't like the conditions and there was no communication from them in the meantime. That's why I didn't feel I was in good hands and then hired another law firm and signed their contract.

Their conditions were slightly better, but not favorable either.

But the fact that you have to sign a declaration of assignment is normal (I think because I'm not a lawyer and have confidence in mine if I ever need it) when you instruct a law firm to take on a case.

I hope this helps the actual question a bit.

P.S. They don't take on cases where they don't make enough win. They are still profit-oriented and don't take on cases because they want to do mankind a favor or fulfill charitable purposes. That should be clear to everyone so far.

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