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Online Casinos in general: The slow demise (Page 2)

Topic created on 12th Apr. 2019 | Page: 2 of 3 | Answers: 22 | Views: 7,971
DocBrown

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 02:07 pm CEST#11
1 Like

Liked this post: Avatar von SunSun13 SunSun13

Daniel wrote on 04/12/2019 at 1:28 pm: Thanks for the post. Why should it be deleted? No insults, no spam and legally I see nothing that would force us to remove your post.

Unfortunately, the proof of income is a normal procedure. You have to show this to all financial service providers for higher Deposit amounts and it has not only something to do with online gambling. Personally, I do not think much of money laundering laws or their implementation, as this is an annoying and unpleasant matter for 99% of non-criminals. The state's surveillance and control is getting worse and worse.

That with the notice of the accounts and/or the one account, as well as the thing with the criminal procedures and/or THE one opened criminal procedure are extremely rare individual cases. With the opened criminal procedure, if the concerning one strives for a lawyer, to safety bordering probability is stopped and/or at the latest in the second instance to be acquitted. The proceedings are also nothing new. This already happened in 2015, when a master painter was convicted by a Munich district court under §285 of the German Criminal Code (StGB), but acquitted by the Munich regional court in the second instance.

In this case, I am also beginning to doubt, since the person concerned has not reported back and apparently does not want to take help. I was the days in Munich and have the person concerned offered me with the specialist lawyer to meet. We also offered to pay for the initial consultation and any further costs and to support the person concerned. Also here so far no answer. We do not know whether the person concerned has taken any action or not. I find that a bit strange.

Also that with the lowering of the RTP are so far also individual cases and these were announced before ( at least by Videoslots ). We hope, of course, that they remain isolated cases. The RTP's of a few game manufacturers so far have also not been lowered to game store level (between 70% and 80%), but are still well above 90%.

I have already commented on the other topics many times: The market will find a way in the long run anyway - even if these individual cases become more - which I do not assume.

First of all, there are already alternatives as far as banks are concerned. Simply open an account abroad. This has several advantages:


  1. You keep a better overview if you have your own gambler account. This can help to avoid control losses.

  2. The account of the house bank looks "cleaner", which can give you a plus point in a future loan application.

  3. It is always good to spread your Risk and not have all your funds in one bank domestically.



Currently, the following foreign banks are recommended (the further ahead, the more recommended from my point of view):



The Online Casinos, which are licensed within the EU, operate completely legally (a few, few exceptions confirm the rule). These casinos adhere to money laundering laws, use original software and comply with the requirements of the respective regulatory authorities.

However, there are also online casinos that operate without a license and / or with fake software and there are online casinos overseas where organized crime has its fingers in the pie. These will not care about bans and also try to trick the banks. There are no limits to the imagination here


  • If not only the states, but also the banks cause problems, criminals could, for example, set up a dummy company that officially has nothing to do with gambling and accept payments from players via this company.

  • If the game manufacturers withdraw, then just the plagiarisms are played. These already exist today and can hardly be distinguished from the originals. Of course, players then no longer have any certainty that the RTP is correct or that the gameplay is really random.

  • And even if every single one of the millions of players in Germany should get into legal trouble, there is still the Pandora's box that could open. It was an idea I had years ago and which is currently being developed or in principle already available. So far, everything is still legal, but if that changes, then it is irreversibly over with player and youth protection. However, players who are of age and not addicted to gambling will benefit massively from this.



A real ban would only make things worse. You can't ban digital goods in 2019 - it doesn't even work properly with physical goods. You can regulate it so that pathological gamblers can protect themselves effectively without restricting the "normal" gamblers. That's the only way that benefits everyone:


  • The state: through higher tax revenues

  • Pathological gamblers: Through a central (preferably Europe-wide) blocking system

  • Young people: Through identity Verification before the first deposit.

  • Average players: Through a large, regulated but unrestricted supply.



The only ones who would not benefit from this on the German market are the old gambling companies, which are not up to the competition, have hardly any international significance, but have a virtual monopoly in the gaming arcade sector. But in the long run, it won't do them any good either, since you can't force people to use their services.



Thank you very much!


I can understand your arguments very well. You had already argued similarly in the threads on the money laundering lawsuit
For me, this is all understandable and certainly not wrong.

But for me personally, it's not about the future. What that will bring remains to be seen...... Instead, I'm not doing well at the moment - right now - when it comes to using online casinos. The fact alone that I have to think about so many different things before I make a few spins on a slot makes me quite thoughtful.

RTP, Bonuses, pending phases... these are all things that are somewhat understandable. Sure, I have a chance at any (I'm only talking about the properly licensed) casino to look at the RTP beforehand. A bonus is a treat and the pending phases are known.

What gives me the most stomach ache is the SOW and my house bank(s). I understand the mechanism behind it and I also know that the requirement for proof of income does not come from the casino, but from the licensing authorities. However, it is something that I will not do today, nor will I do tomorrow. Send my proof of income to an online casino. This is exactly where the line is drawn for me.

The fact that bank account terminations are currently the exception is probably true. However, I am firmly convinced that this will not remain so and a huge hole will open up here in the very short term. I would like to hear other arguments, especially in this regard. Because at the moment, I really see black here. Perhaps I'm also too pessimistic?

In the end, however, these are all good enough reasons for me to stop playing. I understand you absolutely @Daniel and also don't claim that you are in the wrong here. But just the thought that I should open bank accounts abroad, email my most sensitive data to Malta and could throw myself over with my house bank... all just to play online slots... makes me doubt my sanity.

At the moment I have reached the limit. Not because of any particular reason - which you can always get around somehow - but because of the sum of things.

But: A big praise to you! I think it's good that you are very open about this




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Dbac79
Elite

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 03:02 pm CEST#12
2 Likes

Liked this post: Anonym, Avatar von SunSun13 SunSun13

Begbie wrote on 04/12/2019 at 11:11 am: @snopsim
that good winning pictures come in on not activated win lines is intentional and hardcoded. called the "near-miss-effect".
this is supposed to subconsciously trigger you to play the slot longer. always hoping to get the "near-win" on an activated payline.
you can assume with 100% certainty that if you had activated the line on which the 5 explorers came in, they would not have come in.
do not be blinded by these "near-miss" pictures.

100% true, the same with the 3rd Scatter, reel 1+2 come scatter, reel 3 not and 4 and 5 stop scatter 1 too early and 1 too late, so that the player thinks "shit, that was close" but it does not matter where scatter land if not as a win because only what you win and not what you just did not win is determined

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Dbac79
Elite

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 03:05 pm CEST#13
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WithoutWings wrote on 12.04.2019 at 12:17 pm: I say times quite unproductive to who still believes in coincidence has been blinded.

It looks like coincidence for us for the operators it is definitely none.

A good example:

Book of Dead did not run for weeks to hardly, the day before yesterday I see within an hour here 3 new images from BoD with big wins

So quickly deposited on 4 casinos a 25 and behold books without end wins bubble.

A good hour later, the magic was over since then BoD runs everywhere again lousy, short win and then downhill as always stop.

I think the operators see very well that BoD was unpopular and have times briefly a chunk of money rausgehauen to make advertising again.

I for one am absolutely sure that the slots are controlled, it gives us of course the coincidence if one is at the right time of the payout in the right place

of course it is not a coincidence for casono or slot Provider, they also have absolutely no interest in gambling and you play neither against the casino nor the game provider but against all other players there are. the one has no luck and loses 100 euros another has luck and wins 95, who the people are the casino does not matter because they earn 5 euros on it

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Anonym

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 04:18 pm CEST#14
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The title of the thread is very arguable...
Gambling will never die out and will always be offered in some form. There are many Online Casinos that have earned a certain position and they will continue to hold, I say even in Germany. We know how it works, you just have to, like any lobby, push the bills over or under the table to the right politicians or parties and then you can have your idea implemented as law. There are clever people in this industry who will use this as a proven means in the future and thus establish online gambling as legal. The OCs have so far moved on the pink cloud and for this it needs a rethinking process, but this will inevitably set in and after the first the others will follow. The large financiers (today one says to such figures also investors) behind it want to earn finally further and will not let themselves take this.
As the whole runs off and there is always the MGA in the center, if I now times of a at this time serious OC assume, is of course still extremely improvable. The topics have already been chewed over a zillion times here, but it must come in the future
1.) The central Verification at the MGA, with all the trimmings, there I also like to give once my proof of income (although this is actually bullshit, because I see with the now required unredacted bank statements anyway that once or more often in the month a salary or whatever is posted) and whatever else it takes and can play with my MGA registration in all MGA OCs. Then I do not need to think much more, at each OC with MGA license is then everything OK before I still deposited.
2.) The payouts must then be lockable in all MGA OCs and be completed immediately.
3.) Bonuses are bullshit but if anything they need to be heavily regulated with notices and software controlled limits that no one can then bypass.
4.) The game providers, who are represented in a MGA-OC, must show full transparency, what runs so far is rather so naja and much you learn only by chance, such as RTP changes or updates.
5.) There must be a central possibility to be locked at the MGA for all MGA-OCs.
There is a lot more that finally needs to be done right and where we should slowly move, otherwise online gambling always has this grubby image and that doesn't have to be.

I can understand the reasoning of the TEs but these are all just points that need to be improved to simply play online without ulterior motives.
The banking issue I want to address here briefly extra. If the online gambling should be really legal and you Deposit quite normally, as you do today also times at the betting Provider, from time to time in an OC, this should no longer be a problem. The fact that banks have their own way of reacting to risky customers is another issue and whether I order beyond my means like a maniac, deposit money on porn sites or otherwise reveal that I can't handle my money, be it with betting or gambling, I will always have a problem with the bank.

So all rather a potential for improvement, which is but until the implementation really only one and thus but also underlines the current validity of the TE-argumentation.

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S****8

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 04:30 pm CEST#15
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What all how and where must be better, there are already numerous threads here !

The TE is absolutely right, the way it all goes down, it's just no fun anymore.

That was simply better 2-3 years ago.

Nothing will change, rather become even worse ....

Just do not call it "gambling" but "test games"

At the moment it seems to me with all the losses that write here so some

One knows exactly about these points, that everything somehow no longer fits but one continues to pay in ?

Actually, we are pretty crazy about that ?

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Anonym

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 04:40 pm CEST#16
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Sweep88 wrote on 04/12/2019 at 16:30: What all needs to be improved how and where, there are already numerous threads here !

The TE is absolutely right, the way it's all going down, it's just not fun anymore.

That was simply better 2-3 years ago .

Nothing will change, rather become even worse ....

Just do not call it "gambling" but "test games"

At the moment it seems to me with all the losses that write here so some

One knows exactly about these points, that everything somehow no longer fits but one continues to pay in ?

Actually, we are pretty crazy about that ?


It is but the written by the TE and what improved belongs directly together! ... .that is not to be dismissed from the hand!!!

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DocBrown

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 04:54 pm CEST#17
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Unfortunately, it doesn't work out that way with the citation.

@Unbeliever: My intention was to reflect how I see the industry and the problems that exist "now and today" or at least could exist. Certainly, we don't know what will happen in the future. Maybe someday there will be a Europe-wide legalization and a big, regulated market. I see the chances of that far less good, but that's not supposed to be the topic.

You only touch on the banking issue briefly, but that's where I see the greatest potential danger at the moment. And I no longer expose myself to this danger. It makes a difference whether I can't control myself and order too much from amazon & Co. or whether I'm classified as a customer who pushes his money to illegal gambling providers. I'm not talking about overindebtedness and maxed-out overdraft facilities. That's a completely different issue. If you're lucky, the bank will simply classify you as a risky customer and that's it. Then you might have problems getting a loan, but that's it.

But do you know exactly how banks communicate with each other? We have just recently seen the opening clause with regard to data protection in the Insurance sector. You can no longer simply change insurance companies without the new insurer knowing your exact claims history
I don't know if this is the case with banks, but I wouldn't be surprised. Especially not with the banks in the same banking network.

My advice is to be very cautious at the moment. Nothing more.



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S****8

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 05:14 pm CEST#18
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DocBrown wrote on 04/12/2019 4:54 PM

You only briefly touch on the banking issue, but that's where I see the very greatest potential danger right now. And I don't expose myself to that danger anymore. It makes a difference if I don't control myself and order too much from amazon & Co. or if I am classified as a customer who pushes his money to illegal gambling providers. I'm not talking about over-indebtedness and maxed-out overdraft facilities. That's a completely different issue. If you're lucky, the bank will simply classify you as a risky customer and that's it. Then you might have problems getting a loan, but that's it.

But do you know exactly how banks communicate with each other? We have just recently seen the opening clause regarding data protection in the Insurance sector. You can no longer simply change insurance companies without the new insurer knowing your exact claims history
I don't know if this is the case with banks, but I wouldn't be surprised. Especially not with the banks in the same banking network.

My advice is to be very cautious at the moment. Nothing more.

Exactly there I also see the problem! Recently I had a call from my bank because of 50.00 € money received!
They knew exactly that the money came from an OC.
But it was called "general random checks" security and so ... now I learned from a "younger" banker in a nice round, that I am already Risk customer ...because too many smaller debits, but a total of more 1000 € to Ayden and Co....
For me, the Deposit from the account and payout to the account has thus done !
He said to me, times half a year nothing deposit and the banks see that you are no risk ...or addicted to gambling ...
If you get several hundred euros at the machine and pay in via PSC - all good!
If I ever again games test then only about MC ...

To all those who still do not believe that their banks will soon go the same way and must ?

Be careful ... Big Banking is watching You !

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Begbie
Elite

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 07:22 pm CEST#19
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Sweep88 wrote on 04/12/2019 at 17:14: Get several hundred euros at the machine and pay in via PSC - all good !

not necessarily everything is good then, because the bank then thinks, oh look, now the young one carries the money to the arcade instead of spending it online.

no paranoia from me, but actually already times so insinuated to me by the brothers.
once you are branded, it might be hard to get rid of the stamp at the bank.
even if you keep your feet still for a longer time and make your account movements less suspicious.

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S****8

The slow demise

12th Apr. 2019, at 07:37 pm CEST#20
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Begbie wrote on 04/12/2019 at 19:22
not necessarily all is well then, because the bank then thinks, oh look, now the young one is carrying the cash to the arcade instead of spending it online.

no paranoia from me, but actually already once so insinuated to me by the brothers.
once you are branded, it might be hard to get rid of the stamp at the bank.
even if you keep your feet still for a longer time and make your account movements less suspicious.

already clear

But the cloak of concealment is then highly !

can buy yes much with PSC !?

Must not have everything to do with gambling ....

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