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Online Casinos in general: Crypto casinos - how exactly does it work (tax and co)

Topic created on 13th Apr. 2024 | Page: 1 of 3 | Answers: 33 | Views: 1,935
B****5
Hi folks,

is anyone here experienced in using Online Casinos that run exclusively with cryptocurrency?

Let's say I create a BTC wallet, load (hypothetically) a Bitcoin onto it, play with it in a casino and win another Bitcoin. Then I want to sell these 2 BTC on an exchange and cash them out:

1. What about taxation? I once heard that you have to hold them for 1 year = then tax-free!

2. Can there be inquiries from the authorities regarding "where does the money come from/how did you increase the money?"

3. Is it generally possible to prove that you gambled with it? I refer here to criminal charges, which are currently frequently filed.

Thanks in advance for your help

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roccoammo11
Expert

Username85 wrote on 13.04.2024 at 09:53: Moin guys,

is anyone here experienced in using Online Casinos that run exclusively with cryptocurrency?

Let's say I create a BTC wallet, load (hypothetically) a Bitcoin on it, play with it in a casino and win another Bitcoin. Then I want to sell these 2 BTC on an exchange and cash them out:

1. What about taxation? I once heard that you have to hold them for 1 year = then tax-free!

2. Can there be inquiries from the authorities regarding "where does the money come from/how did you increase the money?"

3. Is it generally possible to prove that you gambled with it? I refer here to criminal charges, which are currently frequently filed.

Thanks in advance for your help

assuming you play at stake (which is of course illegal) and have a coinbase account...

you Deposit €20 at coinbase & then deposit it in a cryptocurrency at stake...
win there e.g.100€ could pay this out to coinbase & withdraw the money with the KK from coinbase at the ATM...
if of course you want to move the money back and forth from your bank account, then I don't know exactly how that works & would rather advise against it...

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B****5

roccoammo11 wrote on 04/13/2024 11:02 AM:

assuming you play at stake (which is of course illegal) and have a coinbase account...

deposit 20€ at coinbase & then Deposit it in a cryptocurrency at stake...
win there e.g.100€ could pay this out to coinbase & withdraw the money with the KK from coinbase at the ATM...
if of course you want to move the money back and forth from your bank account, then I don't know exactly how that works & would rather advise against it...

Coinbase credit card - is this somehow registered/relevant in Germany? Schufa query etc.? It is important that it would have to be officially reported to the tax office here (with a German account etc.) -> taxation.


What are your experiences?

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Hidaruma
Top Member

Username85 wrote on 04/13/2024 11:39 AM:

Coinbase credit card - is this somehow registered/relevant in Germany? Schufa query etc.? It is important that it would have to be officially reported to the tax office here (with a German account etc.) -> taxation.


What are your experiences?

If some authority/bank finds out that you are playing in a casino that is illegal in Germany and denounces it, you will have other problems than the taxation of wins.

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B****5

Hidaruma wrote on April 13th, 2024 at 12:27 pm:

If some authority/bank finds out that you are playing in a casino that is illegal in Germany and denounces it, you have other problems than the taxation of wins.

I'd rather keep my hands off it..

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gamble1
Legend

Username85 wrote on 04/13/2024 12:34 PM:

I'd rather keep my hands off it..

Coinbase is a US company that offers you a tool where you can automatically record everything for tax purposes if you leave cryptos lying around for 1 year you don't have to pay tax on anything


Otherwise, you only have to pay tax on the profit from price changes, not on purchases, and if you win in a casino, it's not a win from the price but like a purchase

Apart from that, CB doesn't care if you play with it in the casino anyway, the credit card is prepaid so not in the Schufa

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B****5

gamble1 wrote on 13.04.2024 at 15:02:

Coinbase is a US company that offers you a tool where you can automatically record everything for tax purposes if you leave cryptos lying around for 1 year you don't have to pay tax on anything


Otherwise you only have to pay tax on the profit from price changes not from purchases and if you win in a casino it is not a win from the price but like a purchase

Apart from that, CB doesn't care if you play in the casino with it anyway, the credit card is prepaid so it's not in the Schufa

I found this by chance, it's a bit scary. Nothing seems to be really safe anymore, especially since I've already had a criminal complaint I'd better stop altogether..


https://www.acconsis.de/steuerstrafverfahren-gegen-krypto-trader-finanzamt-hat-ersten-daten-vorliegen/

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roccoammo11
Expert
Well, if you want to be 100% sure then casinos with a German license or gambling hall...

whereby gamble1 is completely right in my opinion...

I also walk with my dog on the sports field although there is a sign saying "no dogs allowed"...luckily I'm not in prison yet...

so if you want to have fun playing, you should take advantage of the opportunities while they are still available...

but I don't want to encourage anyone to do anything illegal

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frapi07
Expert

roccoammo11 wrote on 13.04.2024 at 17:29: Well if you want to be 100% sure then casinos with a German license or gambling hall...

whereby gamble1 is fully & completely right in my opinion...

I also run across the sports field with my dog even though there is a sign saying "no dogs allowed"...luckily I'm not in prison yet because of that...

so if you want to have fun playing, you should take advantage of the opportunities while they are still available...

but I don't want to encourage anyone to do anything illegal

Misdemeanor Felony xD

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Jenges
Amateur

frapi07 wrote on April 13th, 2024 at 5:52 pm:

Misdemeanor felony xD

Participation in illegal gambling is not an administrative offense, but a criminal offense. At least at present. Have a look at the StGB.

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frapi07
Expert

Jenges wrote on 13.04.2024 at 20:10:

Participation in illegal gambling is not an administrative offense, but a criminal offense. At least at present. Have a look at the StGB.

That's exactly what I meant. Rocco compared an administrative offense with a criminal offense. I wanted to write in the post that such a comparison is rather unfavorable. Due to the brevity of the comment, it may not have been clear what I was getting at.

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Jenges
Amateur

frapi07 wrote on 13.04.2024 at 20:17:

That's exactly what I meant. Rocco compared an administrative offense with a criminal offense. I wanted to write with the post that such a comparison is rather unfavorable. Due to the brevity of the comment, it may not have been clear what I was getting at.

Then we are in agreement

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moralischverwerflich
Expert

Username85 wrote on 13.04.2024 at 09:53: Moin guys,

is anyone here experienced in using Online Casinos that run exclusively with cryptocurrency?

Let's say I create a BTC wallet, load (hypothetically) a Bitcoin on it, play with it in a casino and win another Bitcoin. Then I want to sell these 2 BTC on an exchange and cash them out:

1. What about taxation? I once heard that you have to hold them for 1 year = then tax-free!

2. Can there be inquiries from the authorities regarding "where does the money come from/how did you increase the money?"

3. Is it generally possible to prove that you gambled with it? I refer here to criminal charges, which are currently frequently filed.

Thank you in advance for your help

To 1:

Taxable no. Only if there is a price increase in the short period that would be relevant for tax purposes. (as has already been mentioned here)

To 2:
Questions can always arise with larger account movements, but there are plenty of alternatives. There are countless external wallets where you can leave the money that have no cooperation with German authorities etc.. Most of them also have prepaid credit cards (credit card-free) where you can withdraw money from ATMs.

To 3:
It is possible to prove that you have gambled with it, but it is very difficult. You should not send money directly from the exchange to the casino and back. In between, simply use an external crypto wallet and everything is fine.

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MisterL
Expert

morally reprehensible wrote on 14.04.2024 at 08:09

There are countless external wallets where you can leave the money


have you had a list of puzzles for a long time who makes data synchronization with whom

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BookofÖzi
Experienced
Can you buy Litecoin via Trust with a credit card from your bank to gamble at stake? Or is it better to stay away? I have Trust and binance... I used to Deposit directly with Amazon Visa (no longer available) at binance, but now I'm a bit worried about using my house bank Visa.

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