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Online Casinos in general: Consequences after July 1, 2021 (Page 47)

Topic created on 18th May. 2021 | Page: 47 of 94 | Answers: 938 | Views: 315,574
Katharina2
Top Member
Das_Phantom wrote on 07/17/2021 at 20:23
Old Swede... How many times? That Eu law does not apply before national law in relation to gambling, has already been confirmed several times by the court!!! Inform yourself properly... First this bullshit with your domains. Now this ultra-old hat with the freedom of services... you're so not up to date what the legal situation...

Yes, I know the legal situation here and exactly that should lead you to where you stand today.

In addition again the reference:


When is an online casino legal in Germany?

One essential point, for example, is the legality of the gambling offer. It may come as a surprise, but even a casino without a German license can be legal. In this case, it is important that the Provider has a gambling license from an EU country. Then the basic principle of freedom of services within the European un ion comes into play. This allows citizens to use the services of a company as long as it is authorized to do so in an EU country.

As a player, you can therefore legally play in an online casino with a gambling license from Malta. In fact, most Online Casinos are licensed by the Malta Gaming Authority. This renowned regulatory body has been active since 2001 and enjoys an excellent reputation in the online gambling community. Legality and security of casinos without a German license are thus definitely guaranteed.



The players decide

In summary, it is currently mainly up to the players where they prefer to play for real money. As long as the provider has an EU gambling license, users are on the safe side. So it all depends on what is more important to you personally: more security or the freedom to play as you see fit.


Source: https://www.quotenmeter.de/n/125936/casinos-ohne-limit-online-gluecksspiel-im-ueberblick


It is a good idea to read the page as a whole if you have any questions.




This post has been translated automatically

Das_Phantom
Rookie
Catherine2 wrote on 07/18/2021 at 06:11 AM
Yes, I know the legal situation here and that is exactly what should lead you to where you are today.

To that end, the note again:


When is an online casino legal in Germany?

One essential point, for example, is the legality of the gambling offer. It may come as a surprise, but even a casino without a German license can be legal. In this case, it is important that the Provider has a gambling license from an EU country. Then the basic principle of freedom of services within the European un ion comes into play. This allows citizens to use the services of a company as long as it is authorized to do so in an EU country.

As a player, you can therefore legally play in an online casino with a gambling license from Malta. In fact, most Online Casinos are licensed by the Malta Gaming Authority. This renowned regulatory body has been active since 2001 and enjoys an excellent reputation in the online gambling community. Legality and security of casinos without a German license are thus definitely guaranteed.



The players decide

In summary, it is currently mainly up to the players where they prefer to play for real money. As long as the provider has an EU gambling license, users are on the safe side. So it all depends on what is more important to you personally: more security or the freedom to play as you see fit.


Source: https://www.quotenmeter.de/n/125936/casinos-ohne-limit-online-gluecksspiel-im-ueberblick


It is a good idea to read the page as a whole if you have any questions.





This is simply wrong!

Read nevertheless times the judgements of the constitutional courts through. There are nevertheless no 2 opinions.


With its decision of 09.04.2020 - Ref.: 3 L 2847/19 - the Administrative Court of Düsseldorf has now also confirmed that casino and Poker games on the Internet are to be regarded as unauthorized gambling and thus fall under the permission requirement of Section 1 (1) sentence 1 GlüStV NRW and the online gambling ban pursuant to Section 4 (4) GlüStV NRW.

The VG Düsseldorf clarified that a permit to operate an online casino was not dispensable. Moreover, the online casino ban in force in Germany was compatible with both German constitutional law and European un ion law. The court relied on rulings by various higher administrative courts from this year and last year. The following courts most recently commented on the legality under un ion law of the online gambling ban in force in Germany:



  • OVG NRW, decision dated March 30, 2020 - Ref.: 13 B 1696/19

  • OVG Lower Saxony, ruling of February 28, 2019 - Ref.:11 LC 242/16, juris, marginal no. 52 et seq.

  • OVG Schleswig-Holstein, Decision of July 3, 2019 - Ref: 4 MB 14/19, juris, marginal no. 16

  • OVG Saxony-Anhalt, decision of July 9, 2019 - Ref.: 3 L 79/16, juris, marginal no. 51 f.

  • VGH Baden-Württemberg, decision of July 11, 2019 - Ref.:6 S 2759/18

  • OVG Berlin-Brandenburg, decision dated August 20, 2019 - Az.: OVG 1 N 46.18


All higher administrative courts confirmed that the provision of Section 4 (4) GlüStV does not violate constitutional law and also does not violate applicable un ion law. The way is thus clear for claims for damages under civil law.


Illegal online casinos can therefore not invoke that their own online casino offer is justified by the freedom to provide services applicable in the European un ion . This argument is now opposed not only by six decisions of higher administrative courts, but also by the landmark decisions of the Federal Administrative Court of 26.10.2017 (Ref.: 8 C 18.16 and 8 C 14.16).

How this will now "regulate" in the future remains to be seen. But the fact is that you cannot rely on the fact that a casino has a license from an EU country (e.g. Malta) and you can play there as a German without any worries.

This post has been translated automatically

Katharina2
Top Member
Antiheld1335 wrote on 07/17/2021 at 23:08
Excuse me, what kind of sky-scraping bullshit are you actually talking here?

1. The player doesn't have freedom of service, the person providing a service does.

By the way, the freedom to provide services applies in favor of both the service Provider and the service recipient.

Source: file:///C:/Users/admin/Downloads/Guide%20to%20the%20case%20Law%2056finversion-format_en.pdf

page 26, 2nd paragraph from GUIDE TO THE LEGISLATION OF THE EUROPEAN COURT OF JUSTICE on Articles 56 et seq. AEUV THE FREEDOM OF SERVICE



2. Gambling is illegal, even for players, if no license has been issued, this has been the case so far, it remains so; however, the whole thing is not prosecuted, cf. case law of the OLG Munich, as well as of the Bavarian Fiscal Court from last year. In a case concerning the reimbursement of stakes, the judges explained in the written reasons for their ruling why participation in gambling with a European license is illegal, but cannot be prosecuted under German law.

This refers to the illegal casinos in DE


3. In a case in which a gambling provider sued against the German ban, the EU Court of Justice expressly stated that the freedom to provide services may be restricted by law by the member states if there are good and comprehensible reasons for doing so (e.g. prevention of gambling addiction)

Here simply all German players are discriminated against and placed under general suspicion. This is
disproportionate and inadmissible under EU law. It remains to be seen whether this will be upheld.





This post has been translated automatically

Ichbins2018
Top Member
Let's hold on for Catherine,

the new German State Treaty on Gambling is not worth the paper it was printed on - and is at best suitable as toilet paper.

Anyone can and may offer gambling in Germany or other EU countries, as long as the Provider has any license from any EU country.

By the way, the MGA is the measure of all things here and every EU country MUST submit to the MGA - especially as far as gambling is concerned.
The so-called "EU freedom of services" not only obliges us to do so, but must also be implemented explicitly with regard to gambling.
Even if every European country sets up its own rules regarding gambling, be good and listen to Katharina - only what she says or what she finds from pro lobby reporters on the net is valid.

The new gambling treaty - or other gambling treaties in other EU countries - well - are partly complicated
Then rather Bild der Frau or Brigitte as a source - that reads not only easier, but is also hard to beat in terms of bullshit

Maybe you ask someone who knows the matter Katharina, you do not in any case!



This post has been translated automatically

Katharina2
Top Member
Das_Phantom wrote on 18.07.2021 at 09:07
How this will "regulate" now in the future remains to be seen. But the fact is that you can not refer to the fact that a casino has a license from an EU country (eg Malta) and you can play there carefree as a German.

That is not the focus of the link and my statement. There is a ban for illegal
Casinos to offer Games of chance in DE, but this does not include the service fei
of the service recipient. They discriminate by putting all German
Players under general suspicion of being addicted. This is illegal according to EU law
However, the general suspicion also allows a geo-blocking/IPblocking, general ban
on gambling, including state-run ones, or direct prohibition for gamblers to exercise their
Freedom to provide services in the EU.
I find it more purposeful to make the current treaty more attractive to prevent further
Migration to the black market. Addiction prevention can also be
more effectively and without bans.

This post has been translated automatically

Katharina2
Top Member
Ichbins2018 wrote on 07/18/2021 at 10:39 am: Let's hold on for Catherine,

the new German Gambling Treaty is not worth the paper it was printed on - and is at best suitable as toilet paper.

Anyone can and may offer gambling in Germany or other EU countries, as long as the Provider has a license from any EU country.

By the way, the MGA is the measure of all things here and every EU country MUST submit to the MGA - especially as far as gambling is concerned.
The so-called "EU freedom of services" not only obliges us to do so, but must also be implemented explicitly with regard to gambling.
Even if every European country sets up its own rules regarding gambling, be good and listen to Katharina - only what she says or what she finds from pro lobby reporters on the net is valid.

The new gambling treaty - or other gambling treaties in other EU countries - well - are partly complicated
Then rather Bild der Frau or Brigitte as a source - that reads not only easier, but is also hard to beat in terms of bullshit

Maybe you ask someone who knows the matter Katharina, you do not in any case!




Nonsense. Please write to the link and correct the people there directly. You do not believe
seriously that they have no idea about laws and the situation in DE ?
Tell them: You are stupid, I am smarter. Also as meaningless as your whole text.

This post has been translated automatically

Ichbins2018
Top Member
Perhaps you should ask yourself why you meet with your contributions on headwind?

If 10 people tell you - not right - you still persist or remain with your opinion

Ok typical woman, but still must not be right or?

In addition, you can post here judgments or other - to disprove that you are in the wrong - however, that does not seem to work with you - and only what you say is right!

I do not want to p**s you on the car.
However, to spread half-truths here I find everything else fair to other players!

Therefore also my reference to you
to ask someone who actually knows about it.
Because no matter what is written here, you believe no one anyway and as I said, insist on your opinion.






This post has been translated automatically

Das_Phantom
Rookie
Catherine2 wrote on 07/18/2021 at 10:52 AM
That is not the focus of the link and my statement. There is a ban on illegal
Casinos to offer gambling in DE, but does not include the service freedom
of the service recipient. They discriminate by putting all German
Players under general suspicion of being addicted. This is illegal according to EU law
However, the general suspicion also allows a geo-blocking/IPblocking, general ban
on gambling, including state-run ones, or direct prohibition for gamblers to exercise their
Freedom to provide services in the EU.
I find it more purposeful to make the current treaty more attractive to prevent further
Migration to the black market. Addiction prevention can also be
more effectively and without bans.

But what does that have to do with the fact that I, as a player, can choose where I play - and without (theoretical) consequences? As you quote from this ominous page...

I can't receive a service freely and without consequences if the service Provider acts illegally. So it is / was also in the GlüStV: The offer and the participation [...] is illegal.


According to the Federal Administrative Court, there is no violation of the freedom to provide services


This post has been translated automatically

Katharina2
Top Member
Ichbins2018 wrote on 07/18/2021 at 11:44 am: Maybe you should ask yourself why you encounter headwinds with your posts?!

If 10 people tell you - not right - you still persist or remain with your opinion

Ok typical woman, but still must not be right or?

In addition, you can post here judgments or other - to disprove that you are in the wrong - however, that does not seem to work with you - and only what you say is right!

I do not want to p**s you on the car.
However, to spread half-truths here I find everything else fair to other players!

Therefore also my reference to you
to ask someone who actually knows about it.
Because no matter what is written here, you believe no one anyway and as I said, insist on your opinion.







It would be nice if you would respond objectively to contributions and not write from the
hollow hand, only to harm other users. I like to be taught
teach me, but I simply lack the substance and demonstrable reference to the
Matter. My statements have sources, only you should read them first, to discuss factually
to discuss.

This post has been translated automatically

Katharina2
Top Member
The_Phantom wrote on 07/18/2021 at 12:03 PM

According to the Federal Administrative Court, there is no violation of the freedom to provide services


OK, can you please give me the specific source from the Federal Constitutional Court ?

This post has been translated automatically

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