Hello people,
i'm just going to make myself unpopular
There seem to be many different opinions about the moral aspects of chargebacks. I find it amazing that many here would like to leave their money with the casinos. No one can say how much is actually paid out to players, how realistic wins are to be realized at all and everyone has had problems with payouts at OCs
For me, I want to make a clean cut and exhaust my personal economic options in terms of chargeback. It should not affect your chances of winning anyway if the "winning system" actually exists and should be enforced that way
I got myself a lawyer who will retrieve all PayPal, giropay and instant deposits from mid 2017. It is about 20k. The actual difference between win/deposit is -8k. Of course I may only get a small fraction back(if at all my legal costs are covered)However I think the negative emotions this process will bring will help me out of the Gambling addiction in the long run
If there is interest I will keep you updated
Your lawyer has retrieved or will retrieve Giropay and Sofort payments? How is this supposed to work? You yourself made the transfers. And why should they give you the money back - just because you are an addict? If an alcoholic buys three bottles of liquor, can he get it back? After all, he is an alcoholic...
You know yourselves that you are addicted. Why don't you just leave it at that and cut your losses and then get professional help?
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Anonym
Former Member
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
13th Nov. 2019, at 07:30 pm CET#235
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sippi wrote on 11/13/2019 7:03 pm: Your lawyer has recalled or will reclaim Giropay and Sofort payments? How is that supposed to work? You yourself did the transfers after all. And why should they actually give you the money back - just because you are an addict? If an alcoholic buys three bottles of liquor, can he get it back? After all, he is an alcoholic...
You know yourselves that you are addicted. Why don't you just leave it at that and cut your losses and then get professional help?
Alcohol is not illegal in Germany after a certain age. Online Casinos are.
HomoGamblicus wrote on 11/13/2019 17:02: Hi guys,
i'm just going to make myself unpopular
There seems to be many different opinions about the moral aspects of chargebacks. I find it amazing that many here but very much want to leave their money at the casinos. No one can say how much is actually paid out to players, how realistic wins are to be realized at all and everyone has had problems with payouts at OCs
For me, I want to make a clean cut and exhaust my personal economic options in terms of chargeback. It should not affect your chances of winning anyway if the "winning system" actually exists and should be enforced that way
I got myself a lawyer who will retrieve all PayPal, giropay and instant deposits from mid 2017. It is about 20k. The actual difference between win/deposit is -8k. Of course I may only get a small fraction back(if at all my legal costs are covered)However I think the negative emotions this process will bring will help me out of the Gambling addiction in the long run
If there is interest I will keep you updated
Kind regards,
Erik
I hope for you that you have saved money, because if you lose in court you will need it. Get a breakdown of what it will cost if you lose against the banks, because they are your opponents, not the casinos. BTW there are two quite recent judgments where the banks have won and not a single judgment with file number where the plaintiff has won. Good luck 😉
In mid-December there was another ruling by the AG Düsseldorf regarding chargeback.
A player wanted 7000€ back, sued the credit card company and failed in the end.
Begbie wrote on 12/31/2019 10:59 am: In mid-December there was another ruling by the AG Düsseldorf regarding chargeback.
A player wanted 7000€ back, sued the credit card company and failed in the end.
So nothing against the ruling in general but
That the credit institutions do not know where or mostly for what the payments are used as it stands in the report according to the judgement I think is simply wrong
Nowadays there is no transaction without that is clear from where, for whom, for what
Yes, you expect a fair game for both sides (although some casinos do not adhere to this) but I think this problem is simply dealt with too easily here
See nothing, hear nothing, know nothing so it comes across to me as if the big guys are pulling their heads out of the noose and no one is questioning it
Such a behavior we had unfortunately already once in DE even if it is something ago
I find chargeback immoral
But I also find it unfair that the big ones can do everything so easily without having to expect consequences
Money rules the world whether it suits us or not the whole coupled with human stupidity and weakness results in a lucrative business for so many
Edit by Caro: Link from competitor site in the quote removed
And not from Duesseldorf but Ulm comes the last spoken judgement - and who knows it (I know it) the knows it now the payment offerers at the collar goes.
It's about PayPal, as you know it is forbidden to Deposit with Paypal.
Since I was very heavily addicted to gambling and therefore have almost 50 000 euros in Debt to my bank, I wrote to Paypal whether there would be a refund 1. because Online Casinos are banned in Germany 2. because my bank advisor at the time Paypal has sent a letter they should finally block my account because of Gambling addiction but they still have not done and 3. because I just regret it so incredibly everything, it has simply ruined my life
Of course the answer from Paypal was NO
i have stopped gambling because I really fell on my face but waking up every day with the debt is otherwise bad.
So today I called Paypal and asked why there is no more Paypal in online casinos? The gentleman said yes because it is forbidden. Then I said Oh so I could reclaim my money because it was forbidden and you have offered it ? Then the gentleman said, no last year it was legal, this year it's illegal'
lol what do you say to that ?
And today they sent me this
You refer to the criminal offense of illegal gambling (§ 284 StGB), § 4 para 4 Glücksspielstaatsvertrag (GlüStV) for casino games, according to which no compensation claims against you would exist. This payment was completed and the amount was credited to the PayPal account of the recipient on the same day.
Please note that PayPal has no control over the flow of customer payments. When you send a payment using PayPal, you are placing a payment order with us. A period of one business day applies to the execution of payment orders in accordance with this agreement. Within this period, PayPal will execute a payment order placed through the Payment Account by crediting the amount instructed to the recipient's payment service provider.
You initiated this payment and sent it to an existing PayPal account. PayPal has no control over this and cannot make any changes during or after the payment order is given by you.
With PayPal you can send and receive payments. Thereby PayPal is an independent contractor. This means: We have no control over goods or services that are paid for with PayPal and we assume no liability for them.
As this direct debit payment was authorized by you, we would now like to ask you to clear the negative balance on your PayPal account. We reserve the right to restrict your account and forward the claim to an external collection agency.
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
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The legal situation in Germany is I think nowhere as woolly as on the subject of gambling.
Both online and offline.
The reason why the chargeback works is also not the lack of license but because a company based in Malta or elsewhere iemals would sue.
And the loss has to bear the casino, not paypal.
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A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
This is the funniest reason I have ever heard why chargeback is so successful
For this you get a straight A from me...
(for naivety and stupidity)Alright, also a link to broaden your horizon a bit.
https://www.cllb.de/gewinnmitteilungen/erneuter-erfolg-fuer-onlinespieler-vertreten-durch-cllb-rechtsanwaelte-spielanbieter-von-online-gluecksspielen-in-malta-erstattet-deutschem-kunden-erlittene-verluste-in-voller-hoehe-zurueck/
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
i'm just going to make myself unpopular
There seem to be many different opinions about the moral aspects of chargebacks. I find it amazing that many here would like to leave their money with the casinos. No one can say how much is actually paid out to players, how realistic wins are to be realized at all and everyone has had problems with payouts at OCs
For me, I want to make a clean cut and exhaust my personal economic options in terms of chargeback. It should not affect your chances of winning anyway if the "winning system" actually exists and should be enforced that way
I got myself a lawyer who will retrieve all PayPal, giropay and instant deposits from mid 2017. It is about 20k. The actual difference between win/deposit is -8k. Of course I may only get a small fraction back(if at all my legal costs are covered)However I think the negative emotions this process will bring will help me out of the Gambling addiction in the long run
If there is interest I will keep you updated
Kind regards,
Erik
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Liked this post: Anonym,
Klabisto, 
Saphira
You know yourselves that you are addicted. Why don't you just leave it at that and cut your losses and then get professional help?
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
Alcohol is not illegal in Germany after a certain age. Online Casinos are.
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
I hope for you that you have saved money, because if you lose in court you will need it. Get a breakdown of what it will cost if you lose against the banks, because they are your opponents, not the casinos. BTW there are two quite recent judgments where the banks have won and not a single judgment with file number where the plaintiff has won. Good luck 😉
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
A player wanted 7000€ back, sued the credit card company and failed in the end.
Edit by Caro: link removed from competitor site
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
So nothing against the ruling in general but
That the credit institutions do not know where or mostly for what the payments are used as it stands in the report according to the judgement I think is simply wrong
Nowadays there is no transaction without that is clear from where, for whom, for what
Yes, you expect a fair game for both sides (although some casinos do not adhere to this) but I think this problem is simply dealt with too easily here
See nothing, hear nothing, know nothing so it comes across to me as if the big guys are pulling their heads out of the noose and no one is questioning it
Such a behavior we had unfortunately already once in DE even if it is something ago
I find chargeback immoral
But I also find it unfair that the big ones can do everything so easily without having to expect consequences
Money rules the world whether it suits us or not the whole coupled with human stupidity and weakness results in a lucrative business for so many
Edit by Caro: Link from competitor site in the quote removed
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
This is only half the truth!
Meanwhile, there are law enforcement officers who are wanted and who have dealt intensively (and not just superficially) with this matter.
https://www.charge-back.de/spieler-gewinnt-klage-gegen-paypal/
And not from Duesseldorf but Ulm comes the last spoken judgement - and who knows it (I know it) the knows it now the payment offerers at the collar goes.
PayPal was only the beginning....
This post has been translated automatically
A lot of money gambled away, chargeback possible?
Nobody has liked this post so far
It's about PayPal, as you know it is forbidden to Deposit with Paypal.
Since I was very heavily addicted to gambling and therefore have almost 50 000 euros in Debt to my bank, I wrote to Paypal whether there would be a refund 1. because Online Casinos are banned in Germany 2. because my bank advisor at the time Paypal has sent a letter they should finally block my account because of Gambling addiction but they still have not done and 3. because I just regret it so incredibly everything, it has simply ruined my life
Of course the answer from Paypal was NO
i have stopped gambling because I really fell on my face but waking up every day with the debt is otherwise bad.
So today I called Paypal and asked why there is no more Paypal in online casinos? The gentleman said yes because it is forbidden. Then I said Oh so I could reclaim my money because it was forbidden and you have offered it ? Then the gentleman said, no last year it was legal, this year it's illegal'
lol what do you say to that ?
And today they sent me this
You refer to the criminal offense of illegal gambling (§ 284 StGB), § 4 para 4 Glücksspielstaatsvertrag (GlüStV) for casino games, according to which no compensation claims against you would exist. This payment was completed and the amount was credited to the PayPal account of the recipient on the same day.
Please note that PayPal has no control over the flow of customer payments. When you send a payment using PayPal, you are placing a payment order with us. A period of one business day applies to the execution of payment orders in accordance with this agreement. Within this period, PayPal will execute a payment order placed through the Payment Account by crediting the amount instructed to the recipient's payment service provider.
You initiated this payment and sent it to an existing PayPal account. PayPal has no control over this and cannot make any changes during or after the payment order is given by you.
With PayPal you can send and receive payments. Thereby PayPal is an independent contractor. This means: We have no control over goods or services that are paid for with PayPal and we assume no liability for them.
As this direct debit payment was authorized by you, we would now like to ask you to clear the negative balance on your PayPal account. We reserve the right to restrict your account and forward the claim to an external collection agency.
WHAT DO YOU SAY ?? Hope someone can help me..
This post has been translated automatically