It is frightening how quickly the virus spreads. I also have the feeling that no one knows exactly how the virus could ultimately be contained. The fact that they haven't found a suitable medicine yet is worrying. I am especially worried about the elderly. In my opinion, hygiene regulations cannot stop an infection. Avoiding everyday life is also extremely difficult. I would also stay away from large events for the time being. You don't have to provoke it.
Whether the virus comes from a laboratory or not, we will never know. Everything is conceivable
We have not yet made any hoarding purchases. But disinfectants are hard to get. I only hope that the whole spook is over soon or that adequate medical care is ensured
This post has been translated automatically
Anonym
Former Member
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
1st Mar. 2020, at 09:51 am CET#82
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Quietscheentchen wrote on 01/03/2020 at 08:49: In my opinion, the hygiene regulations cannot stop an infection.
They can't stop it, but they can slow it down. That could be crucial. The slower the virus spreads, the less likely it is that extremely large numbers of high-risk patients will need hospitalization in one fell swoop in a few months. That would quickly exhaust our medical capacities. In addition, unlike the flu, there is no vaccine with which we can protect doctors and nurses. "More and more patients - fewer and fewer doctors/nurses" is simply not a good combination.
probably the most sensible contribution I have read so far on this topic
have read
Tom Jandt
We're all going to die - but not from the Corona virus.
UPDATE 2/28: This post is spreading incredibly fast and frequently right now. There are also new developments every day and this post here is not intended to keep you up to date! It reflects only my personal opinion to the 26.02.! For current information you are best off at the Robert Koch Institute, they provide daily updates on the latest findings. Please refrain from calling me a "scientist" when I share information, because as a student I am not! Thanks
As a prospective molecular biologist, who spends hours of his daily life in the microbiology lab, I am concerned about the social hysteria and the political discussion around the new corona virus "Sars-CoV-2". Some idiots are fueling the fear on the internet by spreading stupid conspiracy theories. Just shut the f**k up! The same goes for our Health Minister Jens Spahn, who vehemently argues that Germany is well prepared. We are not. But more on that later.
Let's start at the beginning. Dear conspiracy theorists, what goes off with you actually?! I don't even want to start with people who deny the mere existence of the virus and attribute the symptoms to the 5G network. You are not worth my time. But why do you have to be so adamant that the Sars-CoV-2 virus came from a bioweapons center in Wuhan? Is that what you are longing for? Are you that sensationalist? What is the reason you keep spreading this theory? The virus is extremely poorly adapted to humans. Any virus that kills humans relatively quickly is. It doesn't make sense for the virus to kill its host quickly because then it dies itself, and it doesn't make sense if you want to make a damn bioweapon. Moreover, sequence comparisons show an amazing sequence identity with genome regions from snakes and bats. There you have your culprits, from which the virus was able to infect humans as well through mutations. Dear conspiracy theorists, either you have a lot on your mind, or the people in the bioweapons center in Wuhan have done their job insanely bad. I believe in the first.
Nevertheless, caution is absolutely right and important. Many people always claim that the flu is more deadly than the new Corona virus. In fact, up to 10,000 people die from the common flu every year in Germany alone. In particularly violent years, it can even be as many as 25,000. Annually! In Germany alone! That must be more dangerous! Denkste... of course the danger is to die at present more highly at the flu than at the new Corona virus - completely simply, because one infects oneself much more probably with it and influenza is transmitted also clearly more easily than Sars-CoV-2. Approximately 0.2% of all infected die at influenza, with Sars-CoV-2 are it approximately 2%. So the lethality is much higher! For a healthy person without pre-existing conditions, Sars-CoV-2 nevertheless seems to be relatively harmless. Like influenza, it is particularly dangerous for older or sick persons. A particular danger at present is the simultaneous increase in influenza A infections. An infection with both viruses at the same time could quickly become problematic for the patient, that is true.
So panic after all??? Clearly no. The infections run in Germany substantially milder than in Asia. There are even reports of people who don't even have really great symptoms but have tested positive. What is the reason for this? It has been discovered that the Sars-CoV-2 virus, like all corona viruses, binds the ACE2 receptor in the lungs and enters the body's cells through it. ACE2 receptors are quite normal; all of us have them. Viruses use these receptors to identify their "targets." In the case of corona viruses, these are the ACE2 receptors. It has been found out that Asians have much more of them than we Europeans. The virus therefore has more docking stations in Asian people, it can infect humans more easily and replicate more easily. In Europeans, they found significantly fewer ACE2 receptors in the lungs. This could be a possible explanation for why mortality is higher in Asia and the course of the disease in European cases has so far been quite mild (1). Excitingly, chains of infection also appear to be much shorter in Western countries than in China, for example. Corona viruses as a family are also one of the typical annual cold viruses. Many of you will have already been sick with a corona virus without knowing it. So we should relax a bit, even if the lethality of 2% with the new Corona virus is not completely without.
And please stop buying the respirators from the pharmacies - it makes the pharmacists happy, but these masks usually do not filter any viruses at all. Besides, with the low number of infections at the moment, it's really silly. You would need a FFP2 or FFP3 mask so that you don't get infected. And you don't want that, believe me.
The voices from politics make me particularly angry. Jens Spahn recently said that Germany is well prepared. Are we? I say no. According to my current knowledge, there are currently only a few laboratories in Germany that can test for Sars-CoV-2. So that they don't get calls from panic-stricken people, I won't name them here. Both facilities are probably overburdened because doctors are sending in samples unnecessarily. Nobody trains the physicians straight, how they can differentiate a genuine Sars CoV-2 suspicion case from harmless flu infections. The health insurances pay at present the test only if one was in China or had contact to a confirmed case. In other cases, one may bear the costs in the higher two-digit range privately. As a result, relatively few people get tested - and thus there are very few positively tested cases. This is fatal, because the infection statistics are falsified in this way. You can be sure that there are hundreds of infected people also in Germany. They just don't know it, among other things because the disease is rather mild in Europe. The number of unreported cases is probably high.
Another small anecdote about the test procedure: The viruses are detected by PCR, but unfortunately this does not seem to be very sensitive. If the first test is positive, the first test is validated with another test. If this test is positive again by the test, the test is tested by the test. Only when all three tests are positive, the whole test is considered positive. This is a little bit stupid, does someone with 2 out of 3 tests positive have Sars-CoV-2 or not?
Are we now well prepared? Certainly, the health care system and the medical infrastructure in this country are good. But that doesn't mean we are well prepared. Airports still don't routinely take body temperature, which would be at least a first safety measure. Other countries do, doesn't cost the earth, by the way. The cost to our health care system for thousands of infected people would be higher anyway. It would be important to test ALL people who show symptoms. For this, it would be necessary that doctors recognize the symptoms in the first place, health Insurance companies pay for the test and there are more laboratories in Germany, which can also perform the test. And it would also require a reliable test. There is a massive lack of state laboratories that can perform the tests independently of economic interests. Private medical laboratories are too often extremely tightly calculated and often do not have the required safety level. What we need are more state-funded laboratories, also in view of other epidemics and epidemics that are conceivable in the future. These state laboratories have been massively cut back since the turn of the millennium. No wonder, then, that hardly anyone now feels responsible for testing for Sars-CoV-2. Those labs would have been the place to be, now they don't exist.
I am not quite sure that is really the definition of "well prepared." Sars-CoV-2 is not going to cause a huge number of casualties in Germany. If we had to deal with a real Sars or Ebola epidemic, then I would definitely be afraid, because we are not prepared at all for something like that. I would be interested to know if the government has an emergency plan in case of thousands of infections. I doubt it.
PS: In the end, it all sounds now like everything is really bad and we all need to run into the wall in a panic. Don't. Unfortunately, the media contributes to this by taking the most lurid headlines possible because all people click on it in panic. Read up on scientific sources, check out the Robert Koch Institute and throw your BILD newspaper where it belongs - in the trash. We should not underestimate the danger, but conspiracy theories and media exaggeration will not get us anywhere. We need to act wisely and scientifically and consider how we can contain the infections.
We will all die eventually. But not from the new corona virus 😉
(1) The novel coronavirus 2019 (2019-nCoV) uses the SARS-coronavirus receptor ACE2 and the cellular protease TMPRSS2 for entry into target cells
that sounds reasonable.
I think that the lethality is also far below 2%, because in China only a small part of the infected are included in the statistics...
The winners in this case are the trade, the food and the pharmaceutical industry. But most people don't seem to notice.
And no, I don't think the virus is a government conspiracy to stimulate the economy. But the coverage is nevertheless favorable for the trade, one must say so
The joke is, it is made so much fear with isolation, forced admission, etc., that many who have the suspicion to be ill, rather shut up and confide in no one. And so it can spread even more undisturbed
I wonder why the term "conspiracy theorist" is always used here as a cudgel. Enough conspiracy theories were first put into the world by the governments (e.g. Iraq - weapons of mass destruction) and the doubters were then waved off with this term. Of course, there are also enough cranks, but to devalue everything that does not fit into one's own world view, one should avoid.
Perhaps it runs with this virus in such a way as with the Coronavirus, which 70% of all cats have in this country, which live in the Tierheim or Mehrkatzenhaushalten. At some point the majority has it, but only dies from it if it mutates. This happens rarely and mostly affects the immunocompromised and/ or the elderly.
Bvb1995 wrote on 01.03.2020 at 22:04: We are screwed from front to back
How can there be no case in Berlin yet ? Either they do not test or hide everything
Here live many Iranians students from all over the world
Everything funny
Edit
The sirens do not stop
Maybe the sirens have to do with the Nato maneuver "Defender 2020". It is NATO's largest troop exercise since the end of the Cold War. Military equipment and troops are currently being transported to Germany. Also to Berlin
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Anonym
Former Member
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
1st Mar. 2020, at 10:54 pm CET#90
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There is no such virus. I think everyone who can think a little bit should realize that now
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
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Whether the virus comes from a laboratory or not, we will never know. Everything is conceivable
We have not yet made any hoarding purchases. But disinfectants are hard to get. I only hope that the whole spook is over soon or that adequate medical care is ensured
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Nobody has liked this post so far
They can't stop it, but they can slow it down. That could be crucial. The slower the virus spreads, the less likely it is that extremely large numbers of high-risk patients will need hospitalization in one fell swoop in a few months. That would quickly exhaust our medical capacities. In addition, unlike the flu, there is no vaccine with which we can protect doctors and nurses. "More and more patients - fewer and fewer doctors/nurses" is simply not a good combination.
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Liked this post:
bigbig, 
Horsepower44, 
Quietscheentchen
have read
Tom Jandt
We're all going to die - but not from the Corona virus.
UPDATE 2/28: This post is spreading incredibly fast and frequently right now. There are also new developments every day and this post here is not intended to keep you up to date! It reflects only my personal opinion to the 26.02.! For current information you are best off at the Robert Koch Institute, they provide daily updates on the latest findings. Please refrain from calling me a "scientist" when I share information, because as a student I am not! Thanks
As a prospective molecular biologist, who spends hours of his daily life in the microbiology lab, I am concerned about the social hysteria and the political discussion around the new corona virus "Sars-CoV-2". Some idiots are fueling the fear on the internet by spreading stupid conspiracy theories. Just shut the f**k up! The same goes for our Health Minister Jens Spahn, who vehemently argues that Germany is well prepared. We are not. But more on that later.
Let's start at the beginning. Dear conspiracy theorists, what goes off with you actually?! I don't even want to start with people who deny the mere existence of the virus and attribute the symptoms to the 5G network. You are not worth my time. But why do you have to be so adamant that the Sars-CoV-2 virus came from a bioweapons center in Wuhan? Is that what you are longing for? Are you that sensationalist? What is the reason you keep spreading this theory? The virus is extremely poorly adapted to humans. Any virus that kills humans relatively quickly is. It doesn't make sense for the virus to kill its host quickly because then it dies itself, and it doesn't make sense if you want to make a damn bioweapon. Moreover, sequence comparisons show an amazing sequence identity with genome regions from snakes and bats. There you have your culprits, from which the virus was able to infect humans as well through mutations. Dear conspiracy theorists, either you have a lot on your mind, or the people in the bioweapons center in Wuhan have done their job insanely bad. I believe in the first.
Nevertheless, caution is absolutely right and important. Many people always claim that the flu is more deadly than the new Corona virus. In fact, up to 10,000 people die from the common flu every year in Germany alone. In particularly violent years, it can even be as many as 25,000. Annually! In Germany alone! That must be more dangerous! Denkste... of course the danger is to die at present more highly at the flu than at the new Corona virus - completely simply, because one infects oneself much more probably with it and influenza is transmitted also clearly more easily than Sars-CoV-2. Approximately 0.2% of all infected die at influenza, with Sars-CoV-2 are it approximately 2%. So the lethality is much higher! For a healthy person without pre-existing conditions, Sars-CoV-2 nevertheless seems to be relatively harmless. Like influenza, it is particularly dangerous for older or sick persons. A particular danger at present is the simultaneous increase in influenza A infections. An infection with both viruses at the same time could quickly become problematic for the patient, that is true.
So panic after all??? Clearly no. The infections run in Germany substantially milder than in Asia. There are even reports of people who don't even have really great symptoms but have tested positive. What is the reason for this? It has been discovered that the Sars-CoV-2 virus, like all corona viruses, binds the ACE2 receptor in the lungs and enters the body's cells through it. ACE2 receptors are quite normal; all of us have them. Viruses use these receptors to identify their "targets." In the case of corona viruses, these are the ACE2 receptors. It has been found out that Asians have much more of them than we Europeans. The virus therefore has more docking stations in Asian people, it can infect humans more easily and replicate more easily. In Europeans, they found significantly fewer ACE2 receptors in the lungs. This could be a possible explanation for why mortality is higher in Asia and the course of the disease in European cases has so far been quite mild (1). Excitingly, chains of infection also appear to be much shorter in Western countries than in China, for example. Corona viruses as a family are also one of the typical annual cold viruses. Many of you will have already been sick with a corona virus without knowing it. So we should relax a bit, even if the lethality of 2% with the new Corona virus is not completely without.
And please stop buying the respirators from the pharmacies - it makes the pharmacists happy, but these masks usually do not filter any viruses at all. Besides, with the low number of infections at the moment, it's really silly. You would need a FFP2 or FFP3 mask so that you don't get infected. And you don't want that, believe me.
The voices from politics make me particularly angry. Jens Spahn recently said that Germany is well prepared. Are we? I say no. According to my current knowledge, there are currently only a few laboratories in Germany that can test for Sars-CoV-2. So that they don't get calls from panic-stricken people, I won't name them here. Both facilities are probably overburdened because doctors are sending in samples unnecessarily. Nobody trains the physicians straight, how they can differentiate a genuine Sars CoV-2 suspicion case from harmless flu infections. The health insurances pay at present the test only if one was in China or had contact to a confirmed case. In other cases, one may bear the costs in the higher two-digit range privately. As a result, relatively few people get tested - and thus there are very few positively tested cases. This is fatal, because the infection statistics are falsified in this way. You can be sure that there are hundreds of infected people also in Germany. They just don't know it, among other things because the disease is rather mild in Europe. The number of unreported cases is probably high.
Another small anecdote about the test procedure: The viruses are detected by PCR, but unfortunately this does not seem to be very sensitive. If the first test is positive, the first test is validated with another test. If this test is positive again by the test, the test is tested by the test. Only when all three tests are positive, the whole test is considered positive. This is a little bit stupid, does someone with 2 out of 3 tests positive have Sars-CoV-2 or not?
Are we now well prepared? Certainly, the health care system and the medical infrastructure in this country are good. But that doesn't mean we are well prepared. Airports still don't routinely take body temperature, which would be at least a first safety measure. Other countries do, doesn't cost the earth, by the way. The cost to our health care system for thousands of infected people would be higher anyway. It would be important to test ALL people who show symptoms. For this, it would be necessary that doctors recognize the symptoms in the first place, health Insurance companies pay for the test and there are more laboratories in Germany, which can also perform the test. And it would also require a reliable test. There is a massive lack of state laboratories that can perform the tests independently of economic interests. Private medical laboratories are too often extremely tightly calculated and often do not have the required safety level. What we need are more state-funded laboratories, also in view of other epidemics and epidemics that are conceivable in the future. These state laboratories have been massively cut back since the turn of the millennium. No wonder, then, that hardly anyone now feels responsible for testing for Sars-CoV-2. Those labs would have been the place to be, now they don't exist.
I am not quite sure that is really the definition of "well prepared." Sars-CoV-2 is not going to cause a huge number of casualties in Germany. If we had to deal with a real Sars or Ebola epidemic, then I would definitely be afraid, because we are not prepared at all for something like that. I would be interested to know if the government has an emergency plan in case of thousands of infections. I doubt it.
PS: In the end, it all sounds now like everything is really bad and we all need to run into the wall in a panic. Don't. Unfortunately, the media contributes to this by taking the most lurid headlines possible because all people click on it in panic. Read up on scientific sources, check out the Robert Koch Institute and throw your BILD newspaper where it belongs - in the trash. We should not underestimate the danger, but conspiracy theories and media exaggeration will not get us anywhere. We need to act wisely and scientifically and consider how we can contain the infections.
We will all die eventually. But not from the new corona virus 😉
(1) The novel coronavirus 2019 (2019-nCoV) uses the SARS-coronavirus receptor ACE2 and the cellular protease TMPRSS2 for entry into target cells
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
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I think that the lethality is also far below 2%, because in China only a small part of the infected are included in the statistics...
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Nobody has liked this post so far
And no, I don't think the virus is a government conspiracy to stimulate the economy. But the coverage is nevertheless favorable for the trade, one must say so
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Liked this post:
bigbig, 
RebellYell
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I wonder why the term "conspiracy theorist" is always used here as a cudgel. Enough conspiracy theories were first put into the world by the governments (e.g. Iraq - weapons of mass destruction) and the doubters were then waved off with this term. Of course, there are also enough cranks, but to devalue everything that does not fit into one's own world view, one should avoid.
Perhaps it runs with this virus in such a way as with the Coronavirus, which 70% of all cats have in this country, which live in the Tierheim or Mehrkatzenhaushalten. At some point the majority has it, but only dies from it if it mutates. This happens rarely and mostly affects the immunocompromised and/ or the elderly.
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
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How can there be no case in Berlin yet ? Either they do not test or hide everything
Here live many Iranians students from all over the world
Everything funny
Edit
The sirens do not stop
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Nobody has liked this post so far
Maybe the sirens have to do with the Nato maneuver "Defender 2020". It is NATO's largest troop exercise since the end of the Cold War. Military equipment and troops are currently being transported to Germany. Also to Berlin
This post has been translated automatically
Current Topic CoronaVirus / Opinion, Exchange
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically