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Online Casinos in general: Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

Topic created on 30th Sep. 2024 | Page: 1 of 8 | Answers: 107 | Views: 14,033
mtorero
Amateur
As we all know, the state is broke and now wants to get its hands on us hard-working taxpayers.
After my proceedings for involvement in illegal gambling were discontinued at the beginning of this year, I received a yellow letter from Munich Local Court today.
At unknown times or on xx.xx.2022 and xx.xx.2022, I received book money in the amount of 14,350 euros for sports betting or casino games from the operators Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd (the latter have a license...).
An application is now being made:
- To open the independent confiscation proceedings - criminal judge, to order the confiscation of compensation in the amount of 14,200 against the person affected by the confiscation (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO), to decide by order (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO) and to order by order that I am to participate in the proceedings (435 para. 3 sentence 2, 424 para. 1, 4 StPO)
Has anyone here already received something like this and do the public prosecutor's offices now want us to pay back every win to the state without even offsetting losses that are logically higher over the years? Do these people still have all their wits about them I have to ask myself?

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Stromberg
Legend
Is this the same story that was posted before? Or another participation?

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mtorero
Amateur

Stromberg wrote on 30.09.2024 at 17:12: Is this about the same story that was posted before? Or other participations again?

It's about the case that was dropped in February 2024.

This is now a conviction (§§ 7 - 13, 436 StPO, §§ 24 para. 1, 25 no. 2 GVG...) and they just want 14,200Eur from me now...

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frapi07
Elite

mtorero wrote on 30.09.2024 at 16:52: As we all know, the state is broke and now wants to get its hands on us hard-working taxpayers.
After my proceedings for involvement in unauthorized gambling were discontinued at the beginning of this year, I received a yellow letter from the Munich District Court today.
At unknown times or on xx.xx.2022 and xx.xx.2022, I received book money in the amount of 14,350 euros for sports betting or casino games from the operators Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd (the latter have a license...).
An application is now being made:
- To open the independent confiscation proceedings - criminal judge, to order the confiscation of compensation in the amount of 14,200 against the person affected by the confiscation (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO), to decide by order (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO) and to order by order that I am to participate in the proceedings (435 para. 3 sentence 2, 424 para. 1, 4 StPO)
Has anyone here already received something like this and do the public prosecutors now want us to pay back every win to the state without even offsetting losses that are logically higher over the years? Do these people still have all their wits about them I have to ask myself?

Go to a lawyer immediately and lodge an objection. Don't waste any time.

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Falke
Expert

mtorero wrote on 30.09.2024 at 16:52: As we all know, the state is broke and now wants to get its hands on us hard-working taxpayers.
After my proceedings for involvement in unauthorized gambling were discontinued at the beginning of this year, I received a yellow letter from the Munich District Court today.
At unknown times or on xx.xx.2022 and xx.xx.2022, I received book money in the amount of 14,350 euros for sports betting or casino games from the operators Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd (the latter have a license...).
An application is now being made:
- To open the independent confiscation proceedings - criminal judge, to order the confiscation of compensation in the amount of 14,200 against the person affected by the confiscation (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO), to decide by order (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO) and to order by order that I am to participate in the proceedings (435 para. 3 sentence 2, 424 para. 1, 4 StPO)
Has anyone here already received something like this and do the public prosecutors now want us to pay back every win to the state without even offsetting losses that are logically higher over the years? Do these people still have all their wits about them, I have to ask myself?

Well, when your own state becomes the enemy of the citizen. Germany has come a long way.

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Stromberg
Legend
mtorero wrote on September 30th, 2024 at 5:37 pm:

It is about the proceedings which were discontinued in February 2024.

This is now a conviction (§§ 7 - 13, 436 StPO, §§ 24 para. 1, 25 no. 2 GVG...) and they just want 14,200Eur from me now...

Okay, awesome. I always thought that if a case was discontinued, with or without direct conditions, it was...

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upola
Legend
Well, the question is, why doesn't the state have any money?
Everyone can live out their own fantasies.

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mtorero
Amateur
Stromberg wrote on September 30th, 2024 at 7:23 pm:
Okay, awesome. I always thought that if a case was dropped, with or without direct conditions, it was...

I thought so too. Never heard of this "independent confiscation procedure". Apparently it's supposed to be used to confiscate wins from illegal transactions, whether convicted or not...

In this case, however, the public prosecutor's office simply chose a short period of time when I had a good run of luck and made this win. I have two large, full bin bags in the cellar with used Paysafecards from the last few years. Add to that all the other Deposit methods and you can easily add up to a 6-digit amount with a big minus on the bottom line. Incidentally, a large proportion of the wins from Malta have often gone to state-run German casinos.
As a gambling addict who often had a hard time financially anyway due to his addiction, I am equated with, for example, a car thief who has stolen a vehicle, sold it, made a profit and is supposed to pay back the win. The problem with this in the German justice system in 2024 is that, unlike me, the real criminal car thief will most likely be spared such demands 🤮


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frapi07
Elite

mtorero wrote on 30.09.2024 at 20:07:
I thought so too. Never heard of this "independent confiscation procedure". Apparently it's to be able to confiscate wins from illegal transactions, whether convicted or not...

In this case, however, the public prosecutor's office simply chose a short period of time when I had a good run of luck and made this win. I have two large, full bin bags in the cellar with used Paysafecards from the last few years. Add to that all the other Deposit methods and you can easily add up to a 6-digit amount with a big minus on the bottom line. Incidentally, a large proportion of the wins from Malta have often gone to state-run German casinos.
As a gambling addict who often had a hard time financially anyway due to his addiction, I am equated with, for example, a car thief who has stolen a vehicle, sold it, made a profit and is supposed to pay back the win. The problem with this in the German justice system in 2024 is that, unlike me, the real criminal car thief will most likely be spared such demands 🤮



I understand that you're worried, but I personally don't think they can achieve anything with this. Even the penalties relating to Corona were unlawful and some of them can be reclaimed - at least in Bavaria.

You can be "exempted" from them if you no longer have what you obtained.

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test45
Amateur

mtorero wrote on 30.09.2024 at 16:52: As we all know, the state is broke and now wants to get its hands on us hard-working taxpayers.
After my proceedings for involvement in unauthorized gambling were discontinued at the beginning of this year, I received a yellow letter from the Munich District Court today.
At unknown times or on xx.xx.2022 and xx.xx.2022, I received book money in the amount of 14,350 euros for sports betting or casino games from the operators Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd (the latter have a license...).
An application is now being made:
- To open the independent confiscation proceedings - criminal judge, to order the confiscation of compensation in the amount of 14,200 against the person affected by the confiscation (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO), to decide by order (436 para. 2, 434 para. 2 StPO) and to order by order that I am to participate in the proceedings (435 para. 3 sentence 2, 424 para. 1, 4 StPO)
Has anyone here already received something like this and do the public prosecutors now want us to pay back every win to the state without even offsetting losses that are logically higher over the years? Do these people still have all their wits about them I have to ask myself?

Question: Have the wins of 14,350 euros been paid out to your bank account by these providers?

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mtorero
Amateur

test45 wrote on 30.09.2024 at 20:37:

Question: Have the wins of 14,350 euros been paid out to your bank account by these providers?

Yes, that's why I, like so many others, had a procedure on my neck because the banks report every receipt of money from an unlicensed provider.

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Falko
Icon

mtorero wrote on 30.09.2024 at 20:07:
I thought so too. Never heard of this "independent confiscation procedure". Apparently it's to be able to confiscate wins from illegal transactions, whether convicted or not...

In this case, however, the public prosecutor's office simply chose a short period of time when I had a good run of luck and made this win. I have two large, full bin bags in the cellar with used Paysafecards from the last few years. Add to that all the other Deposit methods and you can easily add up to a 6-digit amount with a big minus on the bottom line. Incidentally, a large proportion of the wins from Malta have often gone to state-run German casinos.
As a gambling addict who often had a hard time financially anyway due to his addiction, I am equated with, for example, a car thief who has stolen a vehicle, sold it, made a profit and is supposed to pay back the win. The problem with this in the German justice system in 2024 is that, unlike me, the real criminal car thief will most likely be spared such demands 🤮



You can bring all the used Paysafe cards with you and have them offset the amount. Hopefully they'll have enough money in their coffers to make a fair settlement 😀

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mtorero
Amateur

Falko wrote on 30.09.2024 at 22:07:

You can then bring all the used Paysafe cards with you and have them offset the amount. Hopefully they will then have enough money in their coffers to create a fair balance 😀

I was already thinking the same thing, that I'd march to the public prosecutor with my two full bin bags of Paysafecards and dump them on her desk.

Why are poor players being punished while many 'illegal' casinos are still being rewarded today by being allowed to rip them off even more with the worst payout rates in the world and the support of the state?
Of course life is unfair and the little man is the first to be made love to, but the unscrupulousness of this justice system is really no longer normal.

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Olli_Eule
Elite

Falko wrote on 30.09.2024 at 22:07:

You can then bring all the used Paysafe cards with you and have them offset the amount. Hopefully they will then have enough money in their coffers to create a fair balance 😀

But then you still need proof of what they were spent on.


All bookings to the casino.

Unfortunately, everything has to be documented.

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Stromberg
Legend
If such a payment really were to be made, and if it were to become common practice (at least no one here has ever reported anything about it), then it is questionable whether losses would be offset at all.
To stay with the example of the thief, a bicycle thief will not be allowed to deduct the price of bolt cutters if he pays the wins from the sale of the bike to the state.

It will be interesting to see what happens, I hope they don't get away with it...

New business model for GJ.... Premium memberships that include free initial legal advice... 😄

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