Topic created on 12th Jun. 2017 | Page: 1 of 1 | Answers: 7 | Views: 1,370
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Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
12th Jun. 2017, at 08:26 pm CEST#1
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There are often these Cash Race Promo 's
where it says for example
The higher the stake, the higher your chance to win a prize.
Is this just to encourage people to play higher or is it only for high rollers anyway?
Players with normal small stakes don't care about that ... or do they?
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Anonym
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Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
12th Jun. 2017, at 08:46 pm CEST#2
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You just have to look at the specific case and see what the conditions are like. It is difficult to make a general statement.
However, there is one rule of thumb: When it comes to Novomatic, it is usually the case that they do everything possible to pull the money out of the players' pockets with both hands. Be it in the design of the bonus conditions, promo conditions, in the "player protection" (the word is known at Novomatic itself only from hearing) or in the design of the games (keyword Manipulation of the subconscious of the players e.g. through the payout structure, sounds, etc.)
But also for other providers applies to the design of promos and Bonuses that these are usually designed so that the Provider promises itself a greater economic success of it. The providers usually have nothing to give away, even if it is always sold that way.
But as I said, it is best to look at the specific individual case to see whether it makes sense for you or not.
However, you should not be motivated to play higher or Deposit more than you can afford by any promo or bonus.
You with your Novomatic hate Sure, hate is also appropriate but why does Novomatic pull more money out of the players' pockets than other providers? Well, the AQ is sometimes 2% lower but the payout structure is usually designed so that you can also win high times. With NetEnt & Co. you just gamble longer but you never win payout-worthy with many games. Unless you gamble like Matthias standard from 10 € / spin. Then you get back your Deposit or 20-30% more as a deposit more often.
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Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
12th Jun. 2017, at 10:32 pm CEST#4
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Daniel wrote on 12.06.2017 at 21:56: You with your Novomatic hate Sure, hate is also appropriate but why Novomatic pulls more money out of the players' pockets than other providers? Well, the AQ is sometimes 2% lower but the payout structure is usually designed so that you can also sometimes win high. With NetEnt & Co. you just gamble longer but you never win payout-worthy with many games. Unless you gamble like Matthias standard from 10 € / spin. Then you get back your Deposit or 20-30% more as a deposit more often.
Well what is worth paying out and what is not, is also always individual matter of opinion. But basically I mean with the payout structure exactly what you explain. Novomatic has chosen the structure of most slots (BOR etc.) in such a way that these winnings remain in the player's mind. The games are very rich in Variance, by the way, Novomatic says so themselves. But that is only one point of many
The Novoline games are all in all very manipulative. Also the things that Akaris has formulated in another thread regarding the Manipulation of the subconscious can be seen in "perfection" at Novomatic
There you can of course simply say, okay these are very well made games or you find it partially reprehensible. I'm not a Gauselmann fan but imo you have at least some decency. This is also seen in the maximum stakes of the online slots, which are at Gauselmann depending on the slot at 5, 10, sometimes 20 and rarely times a maximum of 40 €. With Novomatic this also looks different. There, the maximum stakes are sometimes over €100 and they are also not uniform in all OCs, as it has always been the case with Merkur slots.
The Merkur online games are simply more honest and direct in contrast to the very manipulative Novomatic games. This is exactly why many players say Novoline Online is better than Merkur.
I could expand this now in detail on jackpots, autostart, RTP (which was not specified in the games for years and partly a false too high AQ for BOR was published!), Bonuses, promotions, Player protection, etc. but basically you know it yourself
Also what concerns the allocation of the games to OCs, one does oneself with Novomatic, due to the own greed very heavily... So now referred to Germany. Austria itself and Switzerland have already managed to stop Novomatic players from there from playing. They are then dependent on Futuriti. In Austria it is probably mainly because they want to have 40% tax. Regarding the Swiss, I think it's because the market there will be regulated in a few years and the state casinos there will offer OCs. Then again, Novomatic doesn't want to mess things up.
On games from Germany Novomatic but continues to frolic merrily. Think there are the connections in the policy by the massive lobbying also very good. How else do you get laws that legalize fraud (for me it is morally) in gambling halls. Nothing else are the actual payout ratios in gambling houses and arcades...
Haha I'm back in full and come from sticks to sticks...
But in the end it is the same if you as a player take the precautions and set yourself limits and CONTINUE, it doesn't matter how manipulative the games are. But tell that to a state-trained gambling addict like me, who went to the "Westlotto Academy" at the age of 7. In the future, however, I will simply avoid Novomatic completely!
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Anonym
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Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
12th Jun. 2017, at 11:47 pm CEST#5
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There are cash rates and cash races. At Videoslots I am almost every week between place 80-150 ... gives me 24-48€ free money. In addition halt still the Cashback around the 70-80. but that we will be less when my streak leaves.
At Wunderino I once made place 1 in nem Race with 5,000 participants / what but coincidence since this Race has the highest multilpier gekürt. Since has struck with me Jungle Spirit 1340x. Since it does not matter whether you are low player or highroller - it counts only the multiplier.
With Videoslots, however, the spins count on 0.20 cents, ie if you play with 1.00 € you always have 5 spins ... with 2 € just 10 etc ... there's sick who come to 170,000 spins and more. I never pay attention to races - so do not assume which part where you have to buy ... if I get something is nice - if net is me also Wurscht ...
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Anonym
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Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
13th Jun. 2017, at 01:30 am CEST#6
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Akaris1973 wrote on 12/06/2017 at 23:47: There are just cash rates and cash races. At Videoslots I am almost every week between place 80-150 ... gives me 24-48€ free money. In addition halt still the Cashback around the 70-80. but that we will be less when my streak leaves.
At Wunderino I once made place 1 in nem Race with 5,000 participants / what but coincidence since this Race has the highest multilpier gekürt. Since has struck with me Jungle Spirit 1340x. Since it does not matter whether you are low player or highroller - it counts only the multiplier.
With Videoslots, however, the spins count on 0.20 cents, ie if you play with 1.00 € you always have 5 spins ... with 2 € just 10 etc ... there's sick who come to 170,000 spins and more. I never pay attention to races - so do not assume which part where you have to buy ... if I get something is nice - if net is me also Wurscht ...
I also come back to the actual topic. Since Akaris already VideoSlots as an example calls and I have me the Race there before approx. 2 weeks times more exactly regarded. I'll try to explain why you should not pay so much attention to it. The race of which is even a very humane and player friendly!
However, I must Akaris also immediately contradict because that is not true with the 5 spins at 1 euro and 10 spins at 2 euros. VideoSlots even encourages playing with low stakes with the conditions as you have them, which is very commendable. The awarding of the spins, is namely regulated according to their terms so
Spins over € 0.2 award one spin on the leader-board, spins over € 1 award two spins on the leader-board and spins over € 2 award three spins on the leader-board.
That means who makes a spin on 1€ gets only 2 spins and one on 2€ or above gets only 3 spins. On the other hand, for 5 or 10 spins on 0,20€ you also get 5 or 10 spins on the leader-board. So they even encourage playing on smaller bets with the race! But this is an absolute exception in the industry!
As I said 2 weeks ago, I have already calculated, it is even (at least mathematically) possible to complete the race with a long-term positive expected value. Here is my little calculation:
The winner of the last Races has as Akaris already said about 170,000 spins needed to decide the Races for himself and thus to collect 500€.
That means that he has at least 170.000 x 0,20€ = at least 34.000€ turnover at the slots, but only if he has always spun on 20 cents. Otherwise it was probably significantly more.
If you take this 34,000€ turnover as a basis and look for the "slot" (the game doesn't really deserve the name slot and is totally crap) with the best RTP at Videoslots, that would be Ocean Princess from PlayTech or GameOS with an RTP of 99.1%.
That would mean that you would make on this slot on 0.20€ at 170,000 spins, based on a payout of 99.1% mathematically "only" 306€ loss on the 170K spins
That means, with -306€ loss by the spins and 500€ prize money for winning the race, a calculated net profit of 194€.
And even though I know that, it doesn't appeal to me to make 170,000 spins on 0.20€ on a totally crappy slot just to theoretically have a positive expected value. Then you would have to have the time to make the spins, and the brain you play away in the time is also worth more than a slightly positive expected value at such a slot. Mathematically, the payout on the slot would then be 100.57%, so thanks to the race a positive value for the player.
Then, of course, there is also the Variance, which can ensure that you lose despite the positive expected value, namely because you lose more than the calculated 306 €. Or because the number of spins increases, because you are in a battle with someone for the first place.
The attitude of Akaris, ala take I gladly with is there the best as I find. And as I said, this race from Videoslots is a rather unusual one for the industry
In addition, one should also always consider that there is such a term or similar in every promotion, as well as in this race:
Videoslots.com reserves the right to withdraw any wrong paid race winnings and end this promotion at any given time.
I have also won the race at Casumo with a strategy. Of course, it was not certain that I would win the race, but with the strategy I used at the time, I was able to gain an advantage over the other players who did not use this strategy, and I was also lucky. Were at that time after all 2000€, which I was allowed to gamble away after winning mercilessly.
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Anonym
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Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
13th Jun. 2017, at 10:53 am CEST#7
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Ok I got it wrong - shit ... then I was of course stupid when I was on place 40 Sunday night. Since I was missing 1,100 spins on the first place ... well never mind ... now I know it ...
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Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
13th Jun. 2017, at 11:11 am CEST#8
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Akaris1973 wrote on 13.06.2017 at 10:53 pm: Ok I got that wrong - shit ... then I was of course stupid when I was on place 40 Sunday night. Since I was missing 1,100 spins on place one ... well never mind ... now I know ...
No, there was nothing stupid about it in my opinion. You did what you wanted to do. I am like you the opinion that you should not be animated by such promos to play. But just play only when you really feel like it and just take it as it is then.
If you had been unlucky with the 1,100 spins, you would have lost more than you would have received through first place.
Imo the mindset, I just take it along, related to promos exactly the right thing.
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
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where it says for example
The higher the stake, the higher your chance to win a prize.
Is this just to encourage people to play higher or is it only for high rollers anyway?
Players with normal small stakes don't care about that ... or do they?
This post has been translated automatically
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
Nobody has liked this post so far
However, there is one rule of thumb: When it comes to Novomatic, it is usually the case that they do everything possible to pull the money out of the players' pockets with both hands. Be it in the design of the bonus conditions, promo conditions, in the "player protection" (the word is known at Novomatic itself only from hearing) or in the design of the games (keyword Manipulation of the subconscious of the players e.g. through the payout structure, sounds, etc.)
But also for other providers applies to the design of promos and Bonuses that these are usually designed so that the Provider promises itself a greater economic success of it. The providers usually have nothing to give away, even if it is always sold that way.
But as I said, it is best to look at the specific individual case to see whether it makes sense for you or not.
However, you should not be motivated to play higher or Deposit more than you can afford by any promo or bonus.
This post has been translated automatically
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
Nobody has liked this post so far
Well what is worth paying out and what is not, is also always individual matter of opinion. But basically I mean with the payout structure exactly what you explain. Novomatic has chosen the structure of most slots (BOR etc.) in such a way that these winnings remain in the player's mind. The games are very rich in Variance, by the way, Novomatic says so themselves. But that is only one point of many
The Novoline games are all in all very manipulative. Also the things that Akaris has formulated in another thread regarding the Manipulation of the subconscious can be seen in "perfection" at Novomatic
There you can of course simply say, okay these are very well made games or you find it partially reprehensible. I'm not a Gauselmann fan but imo you have at least some decency. This is also seen in the maximum stakes of the online slots, which are at Gauselmann depending on the slot at 5, 10, sometimes 20 and rarely times a maximum of 40 €. With Novomatic this also looks different. There, the maximum stakes are sometimes over €100 and they are also not uniform in all OCs, as it has always been the case with Merkur slots.
The Merkur online games are simply more honest and direct in contrast to the very manipulative Novomatic games. This is exactly why many players say Novoline Online is better than Merkur.
I could expand this now in detail on jackpots, autostart, RTP (which was not specified in the games for years and partly a false too high AQ for BOR was published!), Bonuses, promotions, Player protection, etc. but basically you know it yourself
Also what concerns the allocation of the games to OCs, one does oneself with Novomatic, due to the own greed very heavily... So now referred to Germany. Austria itself and Switzerland have already managed to stop Novomatic players from there from playing. They are then dependent on Futuriti. In Austria it is probably mainly because they want to have 40% tax. Regarding the Swiss, I think it's because the market there will be regulated in a few years and the state casinos there will offer OCs. Then again, Novomatic doesn't want to mess things up.
On games from Germany Novomatic but continues to frolic merrily. Think there are the connections in the policy by the massive lobbying also very good. How else do you get laws that legalize fraud (for me it is morally) in gambling halls. Nothing else are the actual payout ratios in gambling houses and arcades...
Haha I'm back in full and come from sticks to sticks...
But in the end it is the same if you as a player take the precautions and set yourself limits and CONTINUE, it doesn't matter how manipulative the games are. But tell that to a state-trained gambling addict like me, who went to the "Westlotto Academy" at the age of 7. In the future, however, I will simply avoid Novomatic completely!
This post has been translated automatically
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
Nobody has liked this post so far
At Wunderino I once made place 1 in nem Race with 5,000 participants / what but coincidence since this Race has the highest multilpier gekürt. Since has struck with me Jungle Spirit 1340x. Since it does not matter whether you are low player or highroller - it counts only the multiplier.
With Videoslots, however, the spins count on 0.20 cents, ie if you play with 1.00 € you always have 5 spins ... with 2 € just 10 etc ... there's sick who come to 170,000 spins and more. I never pay attention to races - so do not assume which part where you have to buy ... if I get something is nice - if net is me also Wurscht ...
This post has been translated automatically
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
Nobody has liked this post so far
I also come back to the actual topic. Since Akaris already VideoSlots as an example calls and I have me the Race there before approx. 2 weeks times more exactly regarded. I'll try to explain why you should not pay so much attention to it. The race of which is even a very humane and player friendly!
However, I must Akaris also immediately contradict because that is not true with the 5 spins at 1 euro and 10 spins at 2 euros. VideoSlots even encourages playing with low stakes with the conditions as you have them, which is very commendable. The awarding of the spins, is namely regulated according to their terms so
That means who makes a spin on 1€ gets only 2 spins and one on 2€ or above gets only 3 spins. On the other hand, for 5 or 10 spins on 0,20€ you also get 5 or 10 spins on the leader-board. So they even encourage playing on smaller bets with the race! But this is an absolute exception in the industry!
As I said 2 weeks ago, I have already calculated, it is even (at least mathematically) possible to complete the race with a long-term positive expected value. Here is my little calculation:
The winner of the last Races has as Akaris already said about 170,000 spins needed to decide the Races for himself and thus to collect 500€.
That means that he has at least 170.000 x 0,20€ = at least 34.000€ turnover at the slots, but only if he has always spun on 20 cents. Otherwise it was probably significantly more.
If you take this 34,000€ turnover as a basis and look for the "slot" (the game doesn't really deserve the name slot and is totally crap) with the best RTP at Videoslots, that would be Ocean Princess from PlayTech or GameOS with an RTP of 99.1%.
That would mean that you would make on this slot on 0.20€ at 170,000 spins, based on a payout of 99.1% mathematically "only" 306€ loss on the 170K spins
That means, with -306€ loss by the spins and 500€ prize money for winning the race, a calculated net profit of 194€.
And even though I know that, it doesn't appeal to me to make 170,000 spins on 0.20€ on a totally crappy slot just to theoretically have a positive expected value. Then you would have to have the time to make the spins, and the brain you play away in the time is also worth more than a slightly positive expected value at such a slot. Mathematically, the payout on the slot would then be 100.57%, so thanks to the race a positive value for the player.
Then, of course, there is also the Variance, which can ensure that you lose despite the positive expected value, namely because you lose more than the calculated 306 €. Or because the number of spins increases, because you are in a battle with someone for the first place.
The attitude of Akaris, ala take I gladly with is there the best as I find. And as I said, this race from Videoslots is a rather unusual one for the industry
In addition, one should also always consider that there is such a term or similar in every promotion, as well as in this race:
I have also won the race at Casumo with a strategy. Of course, it was not certain that I would win the race, but with the strategy I used at the time, I was able to gain an advantage over the other players who did not use this strategy, and I was also lucky. Were at that time after all 2000€, which I was allowed to gamble away after winning mercilessly.
This post has been translated automatically
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically
Cash Race 's only for Highroller?
Nobody has liked this post so far
No, there was nothing stupid about it in my opinion. You did what you wanted to do. I am like you the opinion that you should not be animated by such promos to play. But just play only when you really feel like it and just take it as it is then.
If you had been unlucky with the 1,100 spins, you would have lost more than you would have received through first place.
Imo the mindset, I just take it along, related to promos exactly the right thing.
This post has been translated automatically