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Online Casinos in general: Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB) (Page 107)

Topic created on 23rd Jan. 2021 | Page: 107 of 107 | Answers: 1,069 | Views: 273,082
Danny0815
Visitor

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 10:23 am CEST#1065
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T****g wrote on 05.04.2025 at 17:03: [...] I would never have played if I had known about Lottohelden.de.
But a site couldn't be any more German.
Take a look at the site yourself, German support, German hotline in Hamburg, awarded as test winner etc.

Well ... I hope I can sleep better again soon.

Lottohelden/Lottoland really are the bottom drawer.

To this day, these casino shops claim that their offer is legal in Germany ("in their opinion") in order to lull German users into a false sense of security. This has long been against their better judgment, as there are now corresponding rulings that confirm that nation states in the EU can regulate and regulate gambling in their respective countries through individual laws.
The fact that they have a gambling license in Malta or Gibraltar is of no legal benefit to them in Germany.
My question to the authorities would be: why don't they shut down such obviously illegal sites in Germany?
Sure, you could still access them with a VPN, but inexperienced (and uninformed) occasional gamblers would be protected - that's the point, isn't it? (el oh el I know)
My last depositor was several years ago and should soon be time-barred (limitation period 3 years).
Blocking my account would be extremely unpleasant for me.

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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 10:39 am CEST#1066
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Danny0815 wrote on May 19, 2025 at 10:23 am:


My question to the authorities would be: why don't they shut down such obviously illegal sites in Germany?
Sure, you could still access them with a VPN, but inexperienced (and uninformed) casual gamers would be protected - that's the point, isn't it???? (el oh el I know)

Because that can't be the solution. Borders on censorship. The solution is actually very simple: make the offer so lucrative that it's not worth playing illegally. But it won't happen because the state won't waive the tax.

What's more, I don't think some providers will play along and without laws they won't budge. Rightly so, in my opinion. Incidentally, we've already had this issue with +18 content (P**o) and it failed several times there too.

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Stromberg
Legend

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 10:44 am CEST#1067
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frapi07 wrote on May 19, 2025 at 10:39 am:
Because that should not be the solution. Borders on censorship. The solution is actually very simple: make the offer so lucrative that it's not worth playing illegally. But it won't happen because the state won't waive the tax.

What's more, I don't think some providers will play along and without laws they won't budge. Rightly so, in my opinion. Incidentally, the issue has already arisen with +18 content (P**o) and it has also failed several times there.

In what way would it be censorship to prevent a service Provider from offering its illegal service?

The sense and nonsense of regulation, patronizing players and the usual discussions aside.

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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 10:49 am CEST#1068
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Stromberg wrote on May 19, 2025 at 10:44 am:

In what way would it be censorship to prevent a service Provider from offering its illegal service?

The sense and nonsense of regulation, patronizing players and the usual discussions aside.

Just because it's forbidden here? Well, let's ban TikTok too, then we can also block the site for Germany. It's not censorship then, because it's illegal and banned xD Can you see which way it's going?

There are also sites where you can buy things legally, but using them is illegal (Blitzwarner etc.).

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Danny0815
Visitor

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 10:52 am CEST#1069
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Marlies123 wrote on 11.05.2025 at 15:42: Hello dear community

I have read something for the sake of interest.

I always deposit/deposit via my Revolut account or PayPal, mostly casinos with a German license but also at Platincasino or similar.
My question:
could my Revolut account based in Littauen end up with the prosecutor's office even if I make a bigger win? I have a VISA card and can withdraw money free of charge from Deutsche Bank, for example, which I have already done several times.
I also have Paypal, but my German account and Revolut are also deposited there.
I have to say that deposits/withdrawals have been under €1000 so far.

Can you recommend a deposit/withdrawal method?

Thanks for your time... and have a nice Sunday

No offense meant, dear Marlies, but is it considered aiding and abetting illegal gambling if you give specific tips here on how to disguise your account movements to/from illegal casinos as effectively as possible? I'm not a lawyer, and most of the people who are active here won't be either. I would rather be careful.

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Danny0815
Visitor

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 11:07 am CEST#1070
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frapi07 wrote on May 19, 2025 at 10:49 am:

Just because it's banned here? Well then we ban TikTok too, then you can also block the site for Germany. It's not censorship then, because it's illegal and forbidden xD Can you see which way it's going?

There are also sites where you can buy things legally, but using them is illegal (Blitzwarner etc.).

Your argument is "stop the beginnings", did I get that right?

I can understand that in principle.
I'm unsure whether I would see it as censorship, I personally associate the word more with restriction/suppression of opinions/news etc. and LH/LL are simply offering a demonstrably illegal gambling service.
If these sites are declared illegal on the one hand on the grounds of Player protection but the source of the danger remains accessible, that is somehow absurd in my eyes.

Traditional casinos are also regularly closed down, the machines confiscated, etc.
Despite all the concerns, I think that laws should actually apply regardless of whether they have been violated online or offline.

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Stromberg
Legend

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 11:18 am CEST#1071
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frapi07 wrote on May 19, 2025 at 10:49 am:

Just because it's banned here? Well then we ban TikTok as well, then you can also block the site for Germany. It's not censorship then, because it's illegal and forbidden xD Can you see which way it's going?

There are also sites where you can buy things legally, but using them is illegal (Blitzwarner etc.).

No, to be honest, I don't see where this is going. You're not banning a site, but a product or service. In this case, it would mean banning the provision of short films and consequently blocking sites like tiktok. And that's where the comparison starts to fall apart.

But if a website has only one obvious reason to offer an unauthorized service, then it is only logical to block it.

An illegally installed Slot machine will also be removed if it is discovered, instead of just shouting a complaint at the players who gambled on it, even though they may not even have known about it😄

For me, censorship always has something to do with freedom of speech, or the suppression of it. Online Casinos are not so relevant for me and, in my opinion, a block would not be a blueprint for blocking social media sites.

"Of course" there are unfortunately also efforts to intervene in these areas, possibly with flimsy legal concerns, but that is a completely different topic for me and would also become too political.

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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 11:26 am CEST#1072
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Liked this post: Avatar von garfield68 garfield68

Danny0815 wrote on May 19, 2025 at 11:07 am:

Your argument is "resist the beginnings", did I get that right?

I can understand that in principle.
I'm unsure whether I would see it as censorship, I personally associate the word more with restriction/suppression of opinions/news etc. and LH/LL are simply offering a demonstrably illegal gambling service.
If these sites are declared illegal on the one hand on the grounds of Player protection but the source of the danger remains accessible, that is somehow absurd in my eyes.

Traditional casinos are also regularly closed down, the machines confiscated, etc.
Despite all the concerns, I think that laws should actually apply regardless of whether they have been violated online or offline.

Yes, also. Don't get me wrong, there are things that are forbidden (and hidden) on the internet and that's fine. Nevertheless, I don't think it's entirely okay to hide illegal gambling on the Internet - while legal gambling can be considered normal. Gambling is therefore tolerated. Normally, supply and demand regulate the market. But the state knows that it will always lose out here (because of the tax, which is not deducted anywhere else), so the state declares the other sources illegal. It is a restriction of news that affects the market. Normally, a rational-minded person informs themselves in advance, compares and chooses the best offer for them. But they can't do that here because not all the information is available - because it has been suppressed by the state.

It is a kind of restriction. German citizens are restricted from playing in "regulated" booths.



Stromberg wrote on May 19th, 2025 at 11:18 am:

No, I honestly don't see where this is going. You're not banning a site, but a product or service. In this case, it would mean banning the provision of short films and consequently blocking sites like tiktok. And that's where the comparison starts to fall apart.

But if a website has only one obvious reason to offer an unauthorized service, then it is only logical to block it.

An illegally installed Slot machine will also be taken down if it is discovered, instead of just shouting a complaint at the players who gambled on it, even though they may not even have known about it😄

For me, censorship always has something to do with freedom of speech, or the suppression of it. Online Casinos are not so relevant for me and, in my opinion, a block would not be a blueprint for blocking social media sites.

"Of course" there are unfortunately also efforts to intervene in these areas, possibly with flimsy legal concerns, but that is a completely different topic for me and would also become too political.

I wrote my answer above. It's more about the fact that you can't ignore information from a market.

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Stromberg
Legend

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 11:42 am CEST#1073
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frapi07 wrote on May 19, 2025 at 11:26 am:

Posted my reply up there. It's more about not hiding the information of a market.

I don't find that very plausible now.

Would the Jin Ling seller then also have to be allowed to offer his untaxed cigarettes without being bothered, so that the customer gets the information about how much untaxed cigarettes cost? 🤔 And then, of course, get one from the police if he thought they were a good deal and bought them 😄

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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

19th May. 2025, at 12:02 pm CEST#1074
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Stromberg wrote on May 19, 2025 at 11:42 am:

I don't find that very plausible now.

Should the Jin Ling seller then also be allowed to offer his untaxed cigarettes unmolested so that the customer gets the information about how much untaxed cigarettes cost? 🤔 And then, of course, get a slap on the wrist from the police if he thought they were a good deal and bought them 😄

No, but it would be like shutting out cigarette stores from abroad. The seller would also be allowed to offer and sell to Germans. I'm sure that customs will confiscate the packages anyway xD

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