Topic created on 13th May. 2022 | Page: 1 of 3 | Answers: 21 | Views: 6,956
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Retrieve losses
13th May. 2022, at 12:12 am CEST#1
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I have been able to recover all my losses with the law firm von Rüden because online gambling is simply illegal in Germany and the courts are on the side of the players. Turn to the law firm von Rüden because they have been able to bring almost all casinos to a settlement. 1 judgment I have and is legally binding and the rest all settlements. 50% of the deposits back get. !!!!!
Detailed evidence of this at hand? File number or something...
Interestingly, there was only recently a judgment that says exactly the opposite ...
And online gambling is not prohibited in Germany ... just as an aside...
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Anonym
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Former Member
Retrieve losses
13th May. 2022, at 06:55 am CEST#3
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Freakz0id wrote on 05/13/2022 at 06:17: Servus,
Detailed evidence of this at hand? File number or something...
Interestingly, there was just recently a ruling that says exactly the opposite ...
And online gambling is not prohibited in Germany ... just as an aside...
This is nonsense, gambling is still prohibited in Germany - in the absence of a German license - German courts are competent, the national ban does not collide with European law.
Compare to this: Giessen Regional Court on January 21, 2021 (Case No. 4 O 84/20)
The defendant filed the appeal, thus the competent court of appeal was the Higher Regional Court of Frankfurt; the competent judges issued a reference order in which they informed the plaintiff that they would reject the appeal against the above-mentioned judgment - (order of April 8, 2022, Ref. 23 U 55/21).
This reference decision is extremely extensive and detailed, and the OLG also declares itself to have international jurisdiction and states that the German ban on gambling does not violate European law.
What is particularly interesting here: The OLG Frankfurt rejects the casino operators' argument that players are either responsible for clarifying the legal situation themselves, or that the player must be aware per se that gambling is prohibited in Germany.
Very nice the following quote from the decision:
"In addition, the defendant itself has argued over many printed pages on the illegality of the general ban on online gambling or on its legality and has emphasized the particular difficulty of the legal situation, while at the same time accusing the plaintiff of recklessly failing to take note of a clear and easy-to-research legal situation. (...)
It is also remarkable in the legal consequence of the contradictory factual submission that the defendant, which has employed high-ranking legal experts to clarify the legal question, wants to claim an avoidable prohibition error for itself as a business Provider of a service and even considers it unreasonable to check every game participation of registered Speilers worldwide for compliance with the national peculiarities of gambling regulation, at the same time presupposes knowledge of the legal situation on the part of the private customer who has not been legally advised, or rather considers their ignorance to be frivolous."
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Anonym
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Former Member
Retrieve losses
13th May. 2022, at 07:00 am CEST#4
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On the subject of "there is a judgment that says the opposite"... Here is just a brief list of judgments that have turned out in favor of the players, all from the year 2021.
- Paderborn Regional Court, judgment dated July 08, 2021 (Ref. 4 O 323/20).
[-Aachen Regional Court, judgment dated July 13, 2021 (Ref. 8 O 582/20).
- Cologne Regional Court, judgment of October 19, 2021 (Ref. 16 O 614/20).
- Mönchengladbach Regional Court, judgment of December 2, 2021 (Ref. 2 O 54/21): Gamebookers Ltd. or its legal predecessor Electra Works Ltd. (betwandwin, bwin, premium.com) must reimburse almost €100,000.
- Frankenthal Regional Court, judgment of 9.12.2021 (Ref. 3 O 374/20): Player gets back approx. 10,000 €, which he gambled away while playing online Poker on partypoker.com. It does not matter whether he lost against "bots" from ElectraWorks Ltd. or against real players.
- Freiburg Regional Court, judgment of 10.12.2021 (Ref. 2 O 518/20): Martingale Malta 2 Ltd. (operator of casino.club.de) must reimburse net losses of almost €140,000.
- Braunschweig Regional Court, judgment dated December 14, 2021 (Case No. 6 O 1177/21): Martingale Malta 2 Limited must fully reimburse losses in the amount of approximately €45,500.
- Traunstein Regional Court, judgment dated December 18, 2021 (Ref. 3 O 1549/21): Player to be reimbursed for losses from 2018 to 2020.
- Heilbronn Regional Court, judgment of Dec. 22, 2021 (Ref. Bu 8 O 208/20): Electra Works Ltd. with registered office in Gibraltar (bwin.com) must reimburse losses in the amount of € 14,000.
Antiheld1335 wrote on 13.05.2022 at 06:55
This is nonsense, gambling is still prohibited in Germany - in the absence of a German license - German courts are competent, the national ban does not collide with European law.
Exactly the same. Since 2021, they can immediately apply for a license and as long as they don't
not have it and still offer, they are illegal. Which is the predominant
in DE is. To quickly still boil off properly, without license fees and
Taxes. No consideration for search signals and as a highlight the torture Verification
and payout to prove the illegal, retained win.
They have all lost touch with money and with people anyway.
This post has been translated automatically
o****I
Forum posts:108Member has been banned
Retrieve losses
13th May. 2022, at 10:08 am CEST#6
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Freakz0id wrote on 05/13/2022 at 06:17: Servus,
Detailed evidence of this at hand? File number or something...
Interestingly, there was just recently a ruling that says the exact opposite ...
And online gambling is not prohibited in Germany ... just as an aside...
Times the other way around, evidence for the legality of casinos in Germany?
Gamblers read this, and think because of you that gambling is allowed, and then make big eyes when
the money is not paid out because you make false claims.
Do you think that's ok to throw around with ignorance here and possibly pull others in?
You do not even know where the person has played and say sweepingly, it is not forbidden.
A lower authority can never suspend a criminal law. Only the public prosecutor has under certain circumstances
the power to seek a settlement or to discontinue the proceedings.
And that only in minor cases or for lack of public interest.
As far as I can read the StGB, the prohibition of gambling is still in there, as it has been for years.
It also does not say that it is temporarily suspended.
There are no licenses for Online Casinos at all yet, consequently it cannot be legal. No bank can
be guided by anything, so there are still chargebacks or even cancellations.
And whether a casino adheres to the specifications of the authority is not decided by you or the casino, but by
the authority itself. Because the authority then also issues the license. So it can't be legal yet.
This entry fits to that:
Online-Casinos were until 30.6.2021 in Germany basically illegal. Since then you can offer online-gambling legally if you have a German license. However, such licenses do not yet exist (as of the end of April 2022).
Antiheld1335 wrote on 13.05.2022 at 06:55
This is nonsense, gambling is still prohibited in Germany - in the absence of a German license - German courts are competent, the national ban does not collide with European law.
Compare to this: Giessen Regional Court on January 21, 2021 (Az. 4 O 84/20)
The defendant appealed, thus the competent court of appeal was the Higher Regional Court of Frankfurt; the competent judges issued a reference order in which they informed the plaintiff that they would reject the appeal against the above-mentioned judgment - (order of April 8, 2022, Ref. 23 U 55/21).
This reference decision is extremely extensive and detailed, and the OLG also declares itself to have international jurisdiction and states that the German ban on gambling does not violate European law.
What is particularly interesting here: The OLG Frankfurt rejects the casino operators' argument that players are either responsible for clarifying the legal situation themselves, or that the player must be aware per se that gambling is prohibited in Germany.
Very nice the following quote from the decision:
"In addition, the defendant itself has argued over many printed pages on the illegality of the general ban on online gambling or on its legality and has emphasized the particular difficulty of the legal situation, while at the same time accusing the plaintiff of recklessly failing to take note of a clear and easy-to-research legal situation. (...)
It is also remarkable in the legal consequence of the contradictory factual submission that the defendant, which has employed high-ranking legal experts to clarify the legal question, wants to claim an avoidable prohibition error for itself as a business Provider of a service and even considers it unreasonable to check every game participation of registered Speilers worldwide for compliance with the national peculiarities of gambling regulation, at the same time presupposes knowledge of the legal situation on the part of the private customer who has not been legally advised, or rather considers their ignorance to be frivolous."
Of course I meant with valid license
The judgments leave now in the skim only guess why those had got right....
My personal opinion on this is: everyone should be clear what he does and then also stand by it, find the character it says a lot about the people if you choose this path then...
- I would understand it if you have been locked or the Player protection has not taken ...
Freakz0id wrote on 05/13/2022 at 10:22 AM
Of course I meant with valid license
The rulings now in skimming just let you guess why those had got right....
My personal opinion is: everyone should be clear what he does and then also stand, find that it characteristically says a lot about the people if you choose this path then...
- I would understand it if you have been locked or the Player protection has not taken ...
I signed so.
If you had won money, you would probably have accepted it with thanks or made stress if's not fast enough there or retained
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o****I
Forum posts:108Member has been banned
Retrieve losses
13th May. 2022, at 10:57 am CEST#9
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All court rulings go hand in hand with illegality, otherwise you could not recover the losses,or only
with additional evidence such as Gambling addiction, blocking, etc.
I think you can also conclude a lot about the character, if you disregard existing
Legal system, and gambling despite the illegality and the knowledge of it.
Whether this legal system makes sense or not is of secondary importance, it is an existing law.
Do all gamblers now have a basic criminal streak because they gamble illegally,
just as every chargeback has a bad character?
I find this one-sided view, that all chargebackers have no character, a little bit
simple-minded.
Incidentally, the following food for thought:
Quote:
"Embarrassing for Europe: Malta is on the global grey list for money laundering and terrorist financing
As the only country in Europe."
Who now believes that the queries about wealth actually serve to legitimize,
to be able to gamble in casinos?
So whoever has a guilty conscience about getting his money back can gladly give it to such people!
Retrieve losses
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Edit from Sabine: questionable advertising URL
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Retrieve losses
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Detailed evidence of this at hand? File number or something...
Interestingly, there was only recently a judgment that says exactly the opposite ...
And online gambling is not prohibited in Germany ... just as an aside...
This post has been translated automatically
Retrieve losses
Nobody has liked this post so far
This is nonsense, gambling is still prohibited in Germany - in the absence of a German license - German courts are competent, the national ban does not collide with European law.
Compare to this: Giessen Regional Court on January 21, 2021 (Case No. 4 O 84/20)
The defendant filed the appeal, thus the competent court of appeal was the Higher Regional Court of Frankfurt; the competent judges issued a reference order in which they informed the plaintiff that they would reject the appeal against the above-mentioned judgment - (order of April 8, 2022, Ref. 23 U 55/21).
This reference decision is extremely extensive and detailed, and the OLG also declares itself to have international jurisdiction and states that the German ban on gambling does not violate European law.
What is particularly interesting here: The OLG Frankfurt rejects the casino operators' argument that players are either responsible for clarifying the legal situation themselves, or that the player must be aware per se that gambling is prohibited in Germany.
Very nice the following quote from the decision:
"In addition, the defendant itself has argued over many printed pages on the illegality of the general ban on online gambling or on its legality and has emphasized the particular difficulty of the legal situation, while at the same time accusing the plaintiff of recklessly failing to take note of a clear and easy-to-research legal situation. (...)
It is also remarkable in the legal consequence of the contradictory factual submission that the defendant, which has employed high-ranking legal experts to clarify the legal question, wants to claim an avoidable prohibition error for itself as a business Provider of a service and even considers it unreasonable to check every game participation of registered Speilers worldwide for compliance with the national peculiarities of gambling regulation, at the same time presupposes knowledge of the legal situation on the part of the private customer who has not been legally advised, or rather considers their ignorance to be frivolous."
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[-Aachen Regional Court, judgment dated July 13, 2021 (Ref. 8 O 582/20).
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Exactly the same. Since 2021, they can immediately apply for a license and as long as they don't
not have it and still offer, they are illegal. Which is the predominant
in DE is. To quickly still boil off properly, without license fees and
Taxes. No consideration for search signals and as a highlight the torture Verification
and payout to prove the illegal, retained win.
They have all lost touch with money and with people anyway.
This post has been translated automatically
Retrieve losses
Nobody has liked this post so far
Times the other way around, evidence for the legality of casinos in Germany?
Gamblers read this, and think because of you that gambling is allowed, and then make big eyes when
the money is not paid out because you make false claims.
Do you think that's ok to throw around with ignorance here and possibly pull others in?
You do not even know where the person has played and say sweepingly, it is not forbidden.
A lower authority can never suspend a criminal law. Only the public prosecutor has under certain circumstances
the power to seek a settlement or to discontinue the proceedings.
And that only in minor cases or for lack of public interest.
As far as I can read the StGB, the prohibition of gambling is still in there, as it has been for years.
It also does not say that it is temporarily suspended.
There are no licenses for Online Casinos at all yet, consequently it cannot be legal. No bank can
be guided by anything, so there are still chargebacks or even cancellations.
And whether a casino adheres to the specifications of the authority is not decided by you or the casino, but by
the authority itself. Because the authority then also issues the license. So it can't be legal yet.
This entry fits to that:
Online-Casinos were until 30.6.2021 in Germany basically illegal. Since then you can offer online-gambling legally if you have a German license. However, such licenses do not yet exist (as of the end of April 2022).
What does this sentence tell us?
Antihero has explained it quite clearly here!
Edit by Sabine: Advertising link removed
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Retrieve losses
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Jubla2014
Of course I meant with valid license
The judgments leave now in the skim only guess why those had got right....
My personal opinion on this is: everyone should be clear what he does and then also stand by it, find the character it says a lot about the people if you choose this path then...
- I would understand it if you have been locked or the Player protection has not taken ...
This post has been translated automatically
Retrieve losses
Liked this post:
Jubla2014
I signed so.
If you had won money, you would probably have accepted it with thanks or made stress if's not fast enough there or retained
This post has been translated automatically
Retrieve losses
Nobody has liked this post so far
with additional evidence such as Gambling addiction, blocking, etc.
I think you can also conclude a lot about the character, if you disregard existing
Legal system, and gambling despite the illegality and the knowledge of it.
Whether this legal system makes sense or not is of secondary importance, it is an existing law.
Do all gamblers now have a basic criminal streak because they gamble illegally,
just as every chargeback has a bad character?
I find this one-sided view, that all chargebackers have no character, a little bit
simple-minded.
Incidentally, the following food for thought:
Quote:
"Embarrassing for Europe: Malta is on the global grey list for money laundering and terrorist financing
As the only country in Europe."
Who now believes that the queries about wealth actually serve to legitimize,
to be able to gamble in casinos?
So whoever has a guilty conscience about getting his money back can gladly give it to such people!
This post has been translated automatically
Retrieve losses
Nobody has liked this post so far
This post has been translated automatically